new 1500 hour rule and pilot pay

[B767]

With this new legislation, what's going to happen to a place like Great Lakes? I don't see how people go there to fly is with first year pay at 14k or something like that. But with a 1500 hour requirement, who in their right mind would work there?

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by B767

With this new legislation, what's going to happen to a place like Great Lakes? I don't see how people go there to fly is with first year pay at 14k or something like that. But with a 1500 hour requirement, who in their right mind would work there?

Back "in the day" when Lakes mins were much higher, they had plenty of applicants. It will be same with this new law.

[kh15]

Great Lakes is still what seems to be a good gig....from what I hear/see, the upgrade time is quick...be at the majors much faster than someone who is at Skywest (minus the stability and pay....and sleek airplane). But hell, I would do it.

Another thing...I'm a 1,000 hour pilot working my way up the ladder...my current job is as a flight instructor. I'm definately glad the 1,500 rule came out because now you don't have these short cut people trying to get in at 500TT to fly a jet...they just don't appreciate the job. And many of them, few of them I know personally, wanted to skip the whole instruction step...being a CFI was one of the best moves I've made in my life, I've learned so much more than I ever would going from a fresh comm/ticket and a little CFJ sim time to "get in" at the airlines when I'm 15 years old with 25 hours of multi....the "quality" of pilot has gone down, and now it's a good time to bring it back up.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by kh15

Great Lakes is still what seems to be a good gig....from what I hear/see, the upgrade time is quick...be at the majors much faster than someone who is at Skywest (minus the stability and pay....and sleek airplane). But hell, I would do it.

I don't think ANYONE has a quick upgrade time, and I doubt there's gonna be a quick trip to the majors with all the guys on the street/CAs at regionals with 2000-3000 TPIC time waiting in line.

[HVYMETALDRVR]

I remember back in 2006 hearing about this but the idea of a 1500 hour rule being laughed at by pretty much everyone...

Its good its being pushed into effect I saw a few weeks ago on CNN that it had made it through the "House," has it been voted on or passed in the Senate yet? And if not when will it be voted on?

[Clocks]

I dont think someone who says this:

Originally Posted by kh15

Great Lakes is still what seems to be a good gig....from what I hear/see, the upgrade time is quick...be at the majors much faster than someone who is at Skywest (minus the stability and pay....and sleek airplane). But hell, I would do it.

...is qualified to say this:

Originally Posted by kh15

I'm definately glad the 1,500 rule came out because now you don't have these short cut people trying to get in at 500TT to fly a jet...they just don't appreciate the job.

What about respecting the hard work you put into becoming a CFI and working up to the (new) 1500 hours? And you're going to take a huge irony-filled DUMP on that by jumping into a $16/hour airline job for quick upgrade time while saying other people 'dont appreciate the job'?

It really sounds like you're just piecing together random bits of what other people have posted online, without understanding any of the context or bigger picture.

[mshunter]

Originally Posted by Clocks

Not if the unions have anything to do with it.

Im not anti-union. I am anti what the unions have been doing to pilots in the recent past.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Clocks

I dont think someone who says this:

...is qualified to say this:

What about respecting the hard work you put into becoming a CFI and working up to the (new) 1500 hours? And you're going to take a huge irony-filled DUMP on that by jumping into a $16/hour airline job for quick upgrade time while saying other people 'dont appreciate the job'?

It really sounds like you're just piecing together random bits of what other people have posted online, without understanding any of the context or bigger picture.

Glad someone said it.

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by kh15

Great Lakes is still what seems to be a good gig....from what I hear/see, the upgrade time is quick...be at the majors much faster than someone who is at Skywest (minus the stability and pay....and sleek airplane). But hell, I would do it.

Another thing...I'm a 1,000 hour pilot working my way up the ladder...my current job is as a flight instructor. I'm definately glad the 1,500 rule came out because now you don't have these short cut people trying to get in at 500TT to fly a jet...they just don't appreciate the job. And many of them, few of them I know personally, wanted to skip the whole instruction step...being a CFI was one of the best moves I've made in my life, I've learned so much more than I ever would going from a fresh comm/ticket and a little CFJ sim time to "get in" at the airlines when I'm 15 years old with 25 hours of multi....the "quality" of pilot has gone down, and now it's a good time to bring it back up.

Why is it that everyone says CFI is the "best move" they ever made and that they learn a lot, blah blah blah.....I m a CFI as well, but I dont think I know more now than I did when I was a newly minted commercial...All I get everyday is temperamental customers (notice I use the word customer, NOT student) who don't speak English well enough to talk on the radio and get mad at me for putting my fingers at the control.

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by jowong1

Why is it that everyone says CFI is the "best move" they ever made and that they learn a lot, blah blah blah.....I m a CFI as well, but I dont think I know more now than I did when I was a newly minted commercial...All I get everyday is temperamental customers (notice I use the word customer, NOT student) who don't speak English well enough to talk on the radio and get mad at me for putting my fingers at the control.

I feel sorry for your students, it sounds like they receive a huge disservice from you. You can send them to me if you like, I could use the work.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by tjvpa28

I feel sorry for your students, it sounds like they receive a huge disservice from you. You can send them to me if you like, I could use the work.

I'll second that (and I've dealt with PLENTY of foreign students).

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I'll second that (and I've dealt with PLENTY of foreign students).

It's fine that you see them as students, but the flight schools that hired you see them as customers. I don't get why you find it offensive if I call them "customer", they ARE the customer, they are paying, arn't they? Afterall, these "students" of your are the ones paying your rent, your cellphone bills...etc

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jowong1

It's fine that you see them as students, but the flight schools that hired you see them as customers. I don't get why you find it offensive if I call them "customer", they ARE the customer, they are paying, arn't they? Afterall, these "students" of your are the ones paying your rent, your cellphone bills...etc

They aren't taking issue with you calling them a customer... they are taking issue with this:

Why is it that everyone says CFI is the "best move" they ever made and that they learn a lot, blah blah blah.....I m a CFI as well, but I dont think I know more now than I did when I was a newly minted commercial...All I get everyday is temperamental customers (notice I use the word customer, NOT student) who don't speak English well enough to talk on the radio and get mad at me for putting my fingers at the control.

And the lack of respect you have for CFI-ing and your paying customers.

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by Ian J

They aren't taking issue with you calling them a customer... they are taking issue with this:



And the lack of respect you have for CFI-ing and your paying customers.

And why exactly to they take issue with the fact that "I don't think I know more now....." And how is it that I dont have respect for my CFI-ing and my paying customers? I think they are difficult customers, but that doesn't mean I don't have respect for them.

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by jowong1

It's fine that you see them as students, but the flight schools that hired you see them as customers. I don't get why you find it offensive if I call them "customer", they ARE the customer, they are paying, arn't they? Afterall, these "students" of your are the ones paying your rent, your cellphone bills...etc

No sir, the flight school that hired me sees our students as STUDENTS. We care about the quality of training they receive and the quality of pilots we produce more than the money they spend, which is why we stay in business. Yes, I said "business", because you're right, they are paying customers too, but they are not buying aluminum siding from us, they are paying for flight training. If all you see your students as is customers you can bill, I urge you to resign and get a job where your attitude doesn't have a significant effect on another persons livelihood.

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by jowong1

And why exactly to they take issue with the fact that "I don't think I know more now....." And how is it that I dont have respect for my CFI-ing and my paying customers? I think they are difficult customers, but that doesn't mean I don't have respect for them.

Because if you really don't know more now than you did when you got your commercial certificate then you aren't doing your job, and don't deserve the title "Instructor."

[Doug Taylor]

You're now a professional pilot, treat your work professionally. Work might be flying an airplane, teaching ground, flying passengers, or flight instructing students.

If you're finding certain aspects of your work exceedingly difficult, accept that as a challenge, man!

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

You're now a professional pilot, treat your work professionally. Work might be flying an airplane, teaching ground, flying passengers, or flight instructing students.

If you're finding certain aspects of your work exceedingly difficult, accept that as a challenge, man!

Well said

[Boris Badenov]

ahahahaha. That was perfect. Almost TOO perfect. Is a300 secretly running two accounts? Either way, comedy gold! I'm going to go cry I mean laugh now.

[kh15]

Originally Posted by Clocks

I dont think someone who says this:

...is qualified to say this:

What about respecting the hard work you put into becoming a CFI and working up to the (new) 1500 hours? And you're going to take a huge irony-filled DUMP on that by jumping into a $16/hour airline job for quick upgrade time while saying other people 'dont appreciate the job'?

It really sounds like you're just piecing together random bits of what other people have posted online, without understanding any of the context or bigger picture.

Maybe my thoughts were out of order...had a bad day when I posted that comment. It was definitely ironic now that I think about it...so now I guess it's the right time to change my mind. What I really meant to say is MAYBE SOME those zero to hero guys don't appreciate the CFI gig and what it's worth...but I am making assumptions about people/personalities so I guess that isn't the right thing for me to do. Without making any more judgments my point is:

A 500 hour pilot shouldn't be flying a jet with 30 to 90 people on board. Nor should a 500 hour CFI.

That makes more sense...irony fixed.

[kh15]

And on top of that my point on Great Lakes came out of nowhere...all fixed. peace

[Callador]

We can only hope that this would help improve starting pilot pay, but in some regards it may not. I remember back in the 80's my Dad was flying for TWE (Trans States) Metro III's. The minimums were the ATP standards. Some guys had even more time than that getting the FO spot. The pay was pretty bad too. I don't know how much exactly, but I remember my Dad having to do other work to make ends meet.

The nice thing was a quick upgrade time, I think he made Captain in about a year. But even then, the pay for TWE was pretty bad.

And like others have said, lots of pilots back then had to have 2500tt to get into anything. I was talking with one of my dad's friends who is a corporate pilot and he said that is what he had before he got his first job. He also bought himself a citation type rating as well, since the company required that you had to have it.

So while the whole 1500tt thing seems new, it has been this way in the past. I also think wages won't change much. The only upside is that more and more regular folks are learning how low pilot pay is. That might help boost it a little in the future. We can only hope

[falconvalley]

Yeah no kidding. When I was getting my private, I flew with a CFI who had like 3200 hours. I asked "WOW, why aren't you at the airlines??" He said that it wasn't too long ago that he needed that amount of time to get in the airlines, but he hadn't been in the right place at the right time. So, he kept instructing and was holding out for a job at one of the east coast outfits. It's been so long since the last real hard recession, that a lot of new folks don't realize what it was like. This 1500 hour stuff is nothing. It likely won't really amount to anything effective. It might hamper things a little bit if a future hiring spree gets as crazy as the last couple, but it won't really hurt the airlines that much. Besides, most of us won't even have to worry about it. The next generation of newbs won't even know the difference.

[A-300F4-622R]

The group of regional pilots who were hired with a few hundred hours during that last hiring wave, have such a warped sense of reality.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

The group of regional pilots who were hired with a few hundred hours during that last hiring wave, have such a warped sense of reality.

You're generalizing. Some of them certainly do though. Much like some of the guys that came straight out of the military into Legacy/LCC jobs have a warped sense of reality.

This industry takes all sorts. Best you can hope for is everybody to be wiser by the end of the day.