And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated - Page 3

Baronman · October 30th, 2009, 20:03

It is depressing...

First there was the 50 seat RJ....next the 70 seaters made it onto the scene, with basically the same pay...Then came the 90 seaters....then 70 and 90 with First Class.....Now 99 seaters...

See where this is going?

I have 0 interest in flying a CRJ1000, 900, 700 etc for my career at the wages we're currently dealing with. It's simply not worth it. Maybe for some guy fresh out of flight school who can't stomach CFIing or Freight Dogging it for a few years, but not me.

Lee D · October 30th, 2009, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrivc211

Yeah, when you have a fleet of over 300+ Bombardier A/C, you tend to have some leverage. Besides, didn't someone in Europe dumb theirs because of the gear issues(per George

I think Skywest is the largest CRJ operator in the world, not counting ASA.

Oh and if you're wondering, yes, our FO's will scab out and fly the Q-400 at Brasilia rates +5%. It's already been discussed on our forums. As much as they deny in public, when time comes, these little kids will drool at the chance.

Heck, one of my FO's admitted face to face that he would fly it at Brasilia rates to get his time and get out. At which point I blacked out and flew 600 miles without responding to ATC. snap

This rumor has been going the rounds for awhile. (Q400's) I initially also heard the EMB + 5%, but last I heard was it would pay CRJ 50 rates now. (The former would be unacceptable. ) All still rumor, so take with several grains of salt.

Sorry you guys are losing the turboprops.

H46Bubba · October 30th, 2009, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1valarob

Is there some back door way of getting Qs out of order? As far as I know Colgan is at the mercy of the line. If we had the New Qs tomorrow, apparently they would be flying routes.

There have been several "un-named" airlines that have options on some Q400's. That's how you get you get yourself in the line without no one knowing until they activate those options to confirmed orders. SkyWest could have 14 airframes ahead of Colgan's.

Bombardier does that for certain preferred airlines customers.

Baronman · October 30th, 2009, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee D

This rumor has been going the rounds for awhile. (Q400's) I initially also heard the EMB + 5%, but last I heard was it would pay CRJ 50 rates now. (The former would be unacceptable. ) All still rumor, so take with several grains of salt.

Sorry you guys are losing the turboprops.

The Emb + 5% is a joke right? Like a goof on the 5% "override" on the CRJ?

JumpWake · October 30th, 2009, 22:50

So since today, Oct. 30th, was the last business day of October, does this essentially mean that the CRJ-200s are done in April as well?

SpiraMirabilis · October 30th, 2009, 23:18

Most likely, everyone at Mesa already assumed that flying was going away for a while now.

pilotlight · October 31st, 2009, 11:06

Look for Pinnacle to get 100 700's to replace this flying. Thats what trenary told me last week when i played golf with him

Shinerbock · October 31st, 2009, 11:56

Skywest to buy Lynx.

Doug Taylor · October 31st, 2009, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

Although I'd love to see an ORD/DEN base for XJT, I'd much prefer to be ORD/DEN based on the A320 at United.

Someone who gets it.

Let's make a black baby.

mrivc211 · October 31st, 2009, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Someone who gets it.

Let's make a black baby.

I have a better idea, why don't all you guys include Seggy and then go on Maury to try to figure out who the baby daddy is.

Seggy · October 31st, 2009, 13:19

It will be my baby.

FlyChicaga · October 31st, 2009, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Easy for you to say when you're sitting in the left seat vs. the right seat.

You can say all you want that your thoughts/feelings would remain the same no matter what seat you're in, but I don't believe it.

There are plenty of pilots that want to move on to bigger and better that are getting clogged up by the lifers at the regionals. Is it their right to stay, of course. But the moment pilots started turning a stepping stone into "I'm never leaving this airline" really messed things up.

Major airlines realize this and throw the regionals more flying as a bone. They know they're plenty of captains making a career at the regionals willing to sell out their brethren by flying former mainline routes for atrociously less pay then their FO counterparts at the the majors.

How is it easier for me to say that while in the left seat? No movement = More years at a regional. I enjoy working for XJT, but I do not want to stay here forever. I would like to move on. Problem is, as more and more flying is shifted from mainline to the regionals, ALL of our career expectations shift downwards as well. Sure, we can upgrade sooner at the regionals, but that only means less jobs at the majors.

If we were able to shift more jobs to mainline, that would mean more movement from the regionals to fill those positions. Then the pilots in the right seat would quickly upgrade, and now with the changes for airline hiring requirements, you'll see 1500-hour ATPs coming in to the right seat of an RJ. Win all around.

However, the only way we can ever see flying shifted back to the mainline carrier is to make it less cost effective for the majors to outsource their domestic feed. That means increasing pay, work rules and benefits at the regionals to a level commensurate with the majors. Do I think that could happen? Sure, but it would require the utmost of unity and leadership by ALL regional pilot groups to demand that level of compensation. None of us have the guts to do it... We all know as soon as we become too expensive, our capacity purchase agreement goes to the lower bidder. It doesn't help that most of the union leadership at the regionals are lifers... They will make decisions to protect their company, even if it is not good for us as a "whole."

So I guess the answer is just deal with it, and hope we get more RJs?

kellwolf · October 31st, 2009, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotlight

Look for Pinnacle to get 100 700's to replace this flying. Thats what trenary told me last week when i played golf with him

Traitor.

Trip7 · October 31st, 2009, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

How is it easier for me to say that while in the left seat? No movement = More years at a regional. I enjoy working for XJT, but I do not want to stay here forever. I would like to move on. Problem is, as more and more flying is shifted from mainline to the regionals, ALL of our career expectations shift downwards as well. Sure, we can upgrade sooner at the regionals, but that only means less jobs at the majors.

If we were able to shift more jobs to mainline, that would mean more movement from the regionals to fill those positions. Then the pilots in the right seat would quickly upgrade, and now with the changes for airline hiring requirements, you'll see 1500-hour ATPs coming in to the right seat of an RJ. Win all around.

However, the only way we can ever see flying shifted back to the mainline carrier is to make it less cost effective for the majors to outsource their domestic feed. That means increasing pay, work rules and benefits at the regionals to a level commensurate with the majors. Do I think that could happen? Sure, but it would require the utmost of unity and leadership by ALL regional pilot groups to demand that level of compensation. None of us have the guts to do it... We all know as soon as we become too expensive, our capacity purchase agreement goes to the lower bidder. It doesn't help that most of the union leadership at the regionals are lifers... They will make decisions to protect their company, even if it is not good for us as a "whole."

So I guess the answer is just deal with it, and hope we get more RJs?

A good sign here is the potential shifting of flying(based on rumors) from arguably the worst paying airline in the industry to arguably the best. That in itself is good news for the industry. Also that same regional airline loaning money to a mainline to help them stay in business will benefit us because future mainline jobs will be there instead of disappear in bankruptcy.

In today's credit crunch where Airways and United are desperate for cash and no bank willing to loan much credit, the regional airlines are where they can get some quick cash in exchange for long term contracts. If Mesa goes down in which no offense I believe they will, it will open a ton of contract flying for Airways and United. It would be fantastic if they could just replace it with mainline aircraft but realistically, they are not anywhere close to being in the financial position to do that. They need a regional airline to take over that flying and loan them some cash as an incentive. Thank goodness a decent paying if not the best paying regional has a ton of money. I believe this will lead to the era of the super-regional.

The industry already has too many regionals. Its survival of the financially fit right now. By shedding the less financially stable regional airlines, it will mean less regionals, but bigger regionals completing for contracts. By having bigger pilot groups instead of dozens of smalls ones the industry currently has, it will lead to less undercutting and better control of wages. That, combined with a pilot shortage, is our best hope at raising regional compensation towards mainline. I believe that hope will become reality in less than three years. The profession will be alright...

pat84106 · October 31st, 2009, 15:32

I hope skywest AIRLINES gets this flying but I'm not holding my breath. It seems that we're not interested in anything under X number of planes less than Y years, which in this type of market I don't see how any growth isn't good growth.

Socal321 · October 31st, 2009, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7

All thats going on here is the shifting of flying from arguably the worst paying airline in the industry to possibly one of the best. And possibly one of the more respected regional airlines loaning money to a mainline to help them stay in business so there are mainline jobs to go to in todays credit crunch.

Dude seriously give it a rest. I don't know if you can see it but you have no idea how ridicoulous you sound.

The first sentence is preposterous, it shows that you don't know anything. And the second is worse than the first, who do you think this "loan" will help more, mainline? How does a bottom feeding contractor buying their business from their major airline help anyone but Skywest?

jynxyjoe · October 31st, 2009, 16:14

he he he he

bike21 · October 31st, 2009, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Someone who gets it.

Let's make a black baby.

+1

(but I ain't making any babies)

Trip7 · October 31st, 2009, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socal321

Dude seriously give it a rest. I don't know if you can see it but you have no idea how ridicoulous you sound.

The first sentence is preposterous, it shows that you don't know anything. And the second is worse than the first, who do you think this "loan" will help more, mainline? How does a bottom feeding contractor buying their business from their major airline help anyone but Skywest?

Your complete response show you know nothing about business. Talk to me after you get some kind of education.

Socal321 · October 31st, 2009, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7

Your complete response show you know nothing about business. Talk to me after you get some kind of education.

You think that because somehow you work at a more respected bottom feeder, it's ok for them to allocate flying to you at the expense of other regional pilots that are about to be mass furloughed as well as UA mainline pilots that are being furloughed right now. Sick. You are the koolaid drinking labor that is making business boom. Oh yes Skywest buying up major flying is very good for business but it's killing the industry. Keep drinking the koolaid.

jynxyjoe · October 31st, 2009, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socal321

You think that because somehow you work at a more respected bottom feeder, it's ok for them to allocate flying to you at the expense of other regional pilots that are about to be mass furloughed as well as UA mainline pilots that are being furloughed right now. Sick. You are the koolaid drinking labor that is making business boom. Oh yes Skywest buying up major flying is very good for business but it's killing the industry. Keep drinking the koolaid.

Well. To be honest. Trip7 does have the degree in business.

Until mainline takes back their flying, I'm more than happy to see flying goto the highest bidder at the regional level. Whats the worst case scenario? Mesa guys goto work at ASA or skywest and get treated better and paid more?

Although with quotes like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7

....negotiate for higher wages in this economic environment when we're already struggling mightily to compete on due to already high cost structure. Be realistic surreal. I mean haven't you heard about Pinnacle's TA? How are we going to get higher wages if that gets passed and stay in business?

The best we can do is hang on to what we have right now, an industry-leading contract, until the next hiring wave and when the airlines are sucking wind for pilots again, then we can have the leverage to negotiate.

I'm surprised that Trip would later say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7

All thats going on here is the shifting of flying from arguably the worst paying airline in the industry to possibly one of the best.

MikeD · October 31st, 2009, 17:45

Mesa's out of the turboprop business for good?

H46Bubba · October 31st, 2009, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeD

Mesa's out of the turboprop business for good?

Not yet. They're still flying some Dash-8's for Airways out of PHX.

smokey1 · October 31st, 2009, 20:21

Trip 7 is a <edited>

surreal1221 · October 31st, 2009, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokey1

Trip 7 is a <edited>.

Not necessary, might want to visit the "Forum Rules" up at the top.

October 30th, 2009, 20:03	#51
Baronman Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NEWARK Posts: 1,559	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated It is depressing... First there was the 50 seat RJ....next the 70 seaters made it onto the scene, with basically the same pay...Then came the 90 seaters....then 70 and 90 with First Class.....Now 99 seaters... See where this is going? I have 0 interest in flying a CRJ1000, 900, 700 etc for my career at the wages we're currently dealing with. It's simply not worth it. Maybe for some guy fresh out of flight school who can't stomach CFIing or Freight Dogging it for a few years, but not me. __________________ "I got a FEVER, and the only perscription is more Cow-Bell!"

October 30th, 2009, 22:50	#55
JumpWake Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: RIC Posts: 793	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated So since today, Oct. 30th, was the last business day of October, does this essentially mean that the CRJ-200s are done in April as well? __________________

October 30th, 2009, 23:18	#56
SpiraMirabilis Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,345 Blog Entries: 1	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated Most likely, everyone at Mesa already assumed that flying was going away for a while now. __________________ Yet Another Freight Puppy*

October 31st, 2009, 11:06	#57
pilotlight Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Memphis Posts: 164	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated Look for Pinnacle to get 100 700's to replace this flying. Thats what trenary told me last week when i played golf with him

October 31st, 2009, 11:56	#58
Shinerbock Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: where the beer is freshest Posts: 98	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated Skywest to buy Lynx. __________________ Road goes on forever and the party never ends

October 31st, 2009, 13:19	#61
Seggy Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 6,336	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated It will be my baby. __________________

October 31st, 2009, 15:32	#65
pat84106 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SLC Posts: 62	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated I hope skywest AIRLINES gets this flying but I'm not holding my breath. It seems that we're not interested in anything under X number of planes less than Y years, which in this type of market I don't see how any growth isn't good growth.

October 31st, 2009, 16:14	#67
jynxyjoe Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Memphis Posts: 3,631	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated he he he he __________________ I'm fine with pilots being allowed naps in cockpits, as long as we get to wear pajamas. End 16 hour duty days.

October 31st, 2009, 17:45	#72
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark, AZ (KMZJ) Posts: 12,034	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated Mesa's out of the turboprop business for good? __________________ *You want answers?*

October 31st, 2009, 20:21	#74
smokey1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 339	Re: And So it Begins...Mesa Dash Flying Terminated Trip 7 is a <edited> __________________ Terminal B Last edited by Kristie; October 31st, 2009 at 21:21.

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