"Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Career

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

The Q400 begs to differ.....

Q400 is a true regional aircraft. Doubt you'll see it going EWR-ATL and stuff like that...

Originally Posted by staplegun

FWIW, the Delta Pilot contract has pay rates for the Emb-195, Emb-190 and CRJ-900. If management wants those aircraft Delta pilots will fly them.

IMO scope is going to get tighter as time goes on.

You will see plenty of 70-seaters and some 76-seaters in the Delta system, but the 50-seaters are just going to start to go away. It's all about seat/mile costs, not payroll. We finally have a management that gets that.


Kevin

Exactly. I doubt Staplegun, Doug, and the rest of the Southernjets/NWA pilots would vote in any new contract that loosened scope to 120 seats.

The 7 900s Comair were supposed to get has all of a sudden been yanked with no new carrier announced. That could be a sign they are heading to Southernjets.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Q400 is a true regional aircraft. Doubt you'll see it going EWR-ATL and stuff like that....

How about Boise to Los Angeles? That's about seven hundred miles which is the same as EWR-ATL.

I followed a Q out of Boise one day that was going to LAX so that's a real flight.

I bet a lot of money that it was operated by ___ mainline at some point in the past.

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by Nick

How about Boise to Los Angeles? That's about seven hundred miles which is the same as EWR-ATL.

I followed a Q out of Boise one day that was going to LAX so that's a real flight.

I bet a lot of money that it was operated by ___ mainline at some point in the past.

Horizon doesn't count, they do wacky stuff. 700nm flight is not efficient for a Q.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by killbilly

They repealed the Wright Amendment, mostly - there are still some restrictions, but I don't think that's one. I might be wrong. SWA does regular flights from DAL to MDW with stops in either MCI or STL.

If you're speaking direct to ORD, I don't think there is a limitation on AA from running a 73 out of there to ORD, but again, I might be wrong.

It might not all be the Wright Amendment stuff, then. Staffing levels or contract issues might be the reason why we don't have AA flying out of DAL.

Then again, this stuff might be pre-Wright Amendment repeal, as well.

[jynxyjoe]

Originally Posted by staplegun

FWIW, the Delta Pilot contract has pay rates for the Emb-195, Emb-190 and CRJ-900. If management wants those aircraft Delta pilots will fly them.

IMO scope is going to get tighter as time goes on.

You will see plenty of 70-seaters and some 76-seaters in the Delta system, but the 50-seaters are just going to start to go away. It's all about seat/mile costs, not payroll. We finally have a management that gets that.


Kevin

Welp that may be the best news I've had in a while. Hopefully we don't lose our 36 -900's and start furloughing . Well even if they did they'd flow up some of the Mesaba guys to delta for the hiring, so I'd still be ok I'd imagine.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Horizon doesn't count, they do wacky stuff. 700nm flight is not efficient for a Q.

They do wacky stuff. Okay, but they also do half of the Q400 flying in the United States. So there's two Q400 operators in the USA and one of them does not count.

The other is Colgan.

Is EWR-RDU similar to EWR-ATL? It seems like it is.

So the Q400 is right up there with the RJs in replacing mainline on routes as far as I can tell.

[wheelsup]

The Q400 is stealing OUR flying!!!!!!!

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by Nick

They do wacky stuff. Okay, but they also do half of the Q400 flying in the United States. So there's two Q400 operators in the USA and one of them does not count.

The other is Colgan.

Is EWR-RDU similar to EWR-ATL? It seems like it is.

So the Q400 is right up there with the RJs in replacing mainline on routes as far as I can tell.

EWR-RDU is not EWR-ATL. The point I was trying to make is the Q400 will do somewhat regional routes. I doubt you will see it do the IAH to somewhere in Canada or the EWR-OMA route I think you guys do or EWR-TUL. You definitely won't see it do the stuff Republic does like PHL-DFW or DCA-DFW

[kellwolf]

Marcus, man. Come on. You say scope is tight at CAL, and I point out a way around it using turbo props (CAL scope is 50 seat turboJET aircraft). Someone else points out there are Qs flying routes that push its range, and you say it doesn't count. Your head is in the sand, dude. If management can save money by running a Q on a route they WILL. If someone is flying it from LAX-BOI, it shows it can be done. Management will say "Well, if they can do it and make money, we can." Just b/c an airline does "whacky stuff" doesn't negate the fact that it's being done....

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Exactly. I doubt Staplegun, Doug, and the rest of the Southernjets/NWA pilots would vote in any new contract that loosened scope to 120 seats.

Oh hell, want to hear how I voted when it came to allowing 70-seat flying?

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Marcus, man. Come on. You say scope is tight at CAL, and I point out a way around it using turbo props (CAL scope is 50 seat turboJET aircraft). Someone else points out there are Qs flying routes that push its range, and you say it doesn't count. Your head is in the sand, dude. If management can save money by running a Q on a route they WILL. If someone is flying it from LAX-BOI, it shows it can be done. Management will say "Well, if they can do it and make money, we can." Just b/c an airline does "whacky stuff" doesn't negate the fact that it's being done....

All I'm saying is flying the Q 700nm is not efficient and while you're right that management will fly it if it makes money it certainly will not be the norm. The Q will replace 50 jets mainly on routes within 400nm

A CRJ900 can do a lot of damage in terms of taking mainline flying. Not so much with the Q.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by 777forever

All I'm saying is flying the Q 700nm is not efficient and while you're right that management will fly it if it makes money it certainly will not be the norm. The Q will replace 50 jets mainly on routes within 400nm

A CRJ900 can do a lot of damage in terms of taking mainline flying. Not so much with the Q.

There was a time that people would have said the same about flying a -200 from MEM-YYZ, but it happens. I think saying "It's not gonna happen with the Q" is a naive approach. Personally, from a career progression standpoint, the Q400 without good scope language scares the crap outta me.

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

There was a time that people would have said the same about flying a -200 from MEM-YYZ, but it happens. I think saying "It's not gonna happen with the Q" is a naive approach. Personally, from a career progression standpoint, the Q400 without good scope language scares the crap outta me.

Doesn't scare me at all.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by 777forever

All I'm saying is flying the Q 700nm is not efficient and while you're right that management will fly it if it makes money it certainly will not be the norm. The Q will replace 50 jets mainly on routes within 400nm

A CRJ900 can do a lot of damage in terms of taking mainline flying. Not so much with the Q.

I'd like to introduce the newest member of The Boyd Group.

Please join me in welcoming Marcus!!!

[OldTownPilot]

EWR-RDU, CMH, GSO and MYR !< 400 miles, all flown by colgan. The old mans first jet gig was flying 737-200s to all those cities.

nice try, the Q takes mainline jobs. You should see some of the routes flown by the Q in Europe.






Steve, The old man flew ATR-72s with the globe on the tail and express on the side in the early 90's. Large TPs arent new to the CO scope clause and the feeder system.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

EWR-RDU, CMH, GSO and MYR !< 400 miles, all flown by colgan. The old mans first jet gig was flying 737-200s to all those cities.

nice try, the Q takes mainline jobs. You should see some of the routes flown by the Q in Europe.

Steve, The old man flew ATR-72s with the globe on the tail and express on the side in the early 90's. Large TPs arent new to the CO scope clause and the feeder system.

Welp, there goes the argument that the Q400 isn't a scope buster.

I think at this point, either way- the issue is this: No matter WHAT you think the "Majors" will do in terms of growth/hiring, a lot of us could be at our "Regional" job a lot longer than we hoped/anticipated.

Given that, shouldn't we all be doing something to improve our lives at our present place, rather than hope for something down the line?

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

EWR-RDU, CMH, GSO and MYR !< 400 miles, all flown by colgan. The old mans first jet gig was flying 737-200s to all those cities.

nice try, the Q takes mainline jobs. You should see some of the routes flown by the Q in Europe.






Steve, The old man flew ATR-72s with the globe on the tail and express on the side in the early 90's. Large TPs arent new to the CO scope clause and the feeder system.

Of course the Q takes mainline jobs if you're comparing today's industry to the yesteryears like when your Dad started flying. What else is new? My point was the Q is not an immense threat to scope like a CR9 or even a CR7 would be at CAL.

All I see the Q doing is replacing the 50 seat stuff operated by XJET and Republic within 400nm. THEY are they ones that should be shaking from the Q, not mainline guys.

Doubt the Q will be doing routes for CAL similar to what a CR7 or CR9 does for Delta, ATL-DFW, ATL-PHL, ATL-DCA, CVG-DFW and stuff like that.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Doesn't scare me at all.

Head meet sand. The -200s didn't scare mainline pilots either, which is why they sent those little planes to the regionals. DC-9 guys weren't scared of the E175 either, so they let Compass be created. I think a little fear keeps you on your toes.

[OldTownPilot]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Of course the Q takes mainline jobs if you're comparing today's industry to the yesteryears like when your Dad started flying. What else is new? My point was the Q is not an immense threat to scope like a CR9 or even a CR7 would be at CAL.

Ins't that the point? Thats all in the past 10 years. How do you think things are going to look in 40 years when you retire? If this trend continues, its going to be REAL bad.

All I see the Q doing is replacing the 50 seat stuff operated by XJET and Republic within 400nm. THEY are they ones that should be shaking from the Q, not mainline guys.

Again, MYR, CMH, RDU, and GSO are NOT within 400 nm.

You need to look back more than the 6 months you have been flying for the airlines. They have been around a bit longer than that. Sure 6 months ago XJT may have been flying those routes. But before that all those were flown by mainline pilots.

Just this year, PVD, BUF and MHT have lost mainline flights to EWR.

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Head meet sand. The -200s didn't scare mainline pilots either, which is why they sent those little planes to the regionals. DC-9 guys weren't scared of the E175 either, so they let Compass be created. I think a little fear keeps you on your toes.

Head is way above sand. What routes are the might 74 seat Q going to take from mainline CAL that hasn't already been taken by the 50 seaters? Are they going to start flying the Q from EWR to DFW? EWR to TPA? EWR to MIA? EWR to Punta Cana?

The 50 seaters are completely uneconomical. Say hello to their replacement.

[OldTownPilot]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Head is way above sand. What routes are the might 74 seat Q going to take from mainline CAL that hasn't already been taken by the 50 seaters? Are they going to start flying the Q from EWR to DFW? EWR to TPA? EWR to MIA? EWR to Punta Cana?

EWR-PVD, BUF and MHT

Of course the Q isnt going to fly those. be realistic.

The 50 seaters are completely uneconomical. Say hello to their replacement.

Says Mr. large TP driver on an ego trip

[meritflyer]

The disturbing trend is seats/scope.

Once a 'commuter' airline now flies aircraft capable of carring 90+ people.

10 ---> 19 ---> 30 ---> ---> 50 ---> 70 ---> --- 90. To those that think 100+ seats are not coming to the regionals based on this historical trend, are in fact mistaken unless the mainline and regional pilots take a stand.

The trend should concern mainline guys. The CRJ1000, EJet, Q400, and other high capacity ships pose a major threat and shouldn't be taken lightly.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

Says Mr. large TP driver on an ego trip

pwnt

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

The disturbing trend is seats/scope.

Once a 'commuter' airline now flies aircraft capable of carring 90+ people.

10 ---> 19 ---> 30 ---> ---> 50 ---> 70 ---> --- 90. To those that think 100+ seats are not coming to the regionals based on this historical trend, are in fact mistaken unless the mainline and regional pilots take a stand.

The trend should concern mainline guys. The CRJ1000, EJet, Q400, and other high capacity ships pose a major threat and shouldn't be taken lightly.

You forgot the C-Series my friend!

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by OldTownPilot

EWR-PVD, BUF and MHT

Of course the Q isnt going to fly those. be realistic.


Says Mr. large TP driver on an ego trip

I say a completely well known fact such as the 50 seaters are uneconomic then you come back with this silly personal attack?

Anyways, back on topic, are you telling me EWR-PVD, BUF and MHT were exclusively mainline routes and now exclusively Q400 routes?

The Q may be high capacity but it is a completely different animal when comparing it to the CR7, CR9, CR1000, E170, E175 etc. Shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

Comparisions are always made between the CR9 and the DC9 or the E170/E175 and the 737. Whats the Q400 replacing then?