"Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Career

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Really? 'Cause I've got several sections of a new contract already TA'ed between the union and management that says you're wrong. It's not always about the $$$. Work rules, etc make a BIG difference. Too many guys get hung up on the hourly wage and get the wool pulled over their eyes. Fact is, you can go with a LOWER wage and make MORE with the right work rules. Plus it's pretty defeatist to simply throw your hands up and say "What's the use? I might as well live with it." I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I didn't at least try to make things better.

That's exactly right! We must continue trying to improve work conditions at the regional level. Sure, everyone would like a better payrate; however, I'd be happy getting a duty rig, 150% pay for over 80 hour months, 150% pay for over 12 hour day. Those are just examples and they're many more. But it gives people an idea how total compensation would improve the takehome pay of our pilot group.

[BillErvin]

Originally Posted by b3181981

I say the army enlisted is for the poor, stupid, ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up. it is kind of sad people have to put their lives and life on the line to get a head.

Spoken like a true ignoramus who has never served their country. The enlisted men I fought with were not stupid, far from ignorant, most came from middle class families, and were true professionals in every sense of the word.

Even if they are from a poor background most people do better themselves during and after their military service. You seem to want to lump everyone into big groups, and it just doesn't work that way.

You know what the worst part is, you'll never know or understand what I'm talking about, because stupid is a state of mind, its an attitude, kind of like yours.

What a putz!

[Doug Taylor]

Whoah, whoah, whoah, calm down there, sparky!

No need getting all worked up man. Make your point, sans insults and try it again. Don't let bad delivery get in the way of what may be a good message.

[Screaming_Emu]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Don't let bad delivery get in the way of what may be a good message.

That happens a lot round here

[BillErvin]

Sorry Doug, some things just jerk my chain. I've known a lot of "enlisted" folks (of which I was one for 21 years) who have done great things in and out of the military, and I've buried a few that could have, and for this guy to come on here and throw down a blanket statement like that, is just plain ludicrous and deserved to be challenged!

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by b3181981

....
I say the army enlisted is for the poor, stupid, ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up. it is kind of sad people have to put their lives and life on the line to get a head.

I missed this little gem on the first pass through.
Just so you know...

As the author of the well-written, carefully thought out, thought provoking, quoted, and reprinted article at the beginning of this thread-

8.5 year active duty US Army. 3 year-long overseas tours, 2 in combat.
A few minor combat decorations for meritorious service.

Three Stripes. Sergeant. Passed the promotion board for Staff Sergeant, but decided to get out.

I don't have a college degree yet, but mostly just because I'm only half way finished with it. College classes run a bit on the easy side for me and bore me to death.

I.Q. of 146.

You know not of what you speak.

Be quiet now and stop causing trouble.

Class dismissed.

[b3181981]

let me rephrase that,
the military is for the poor, or the stupid, or the ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up. You show me a guy that goes in with his asvabs scores and tells the recruiter to put them anywhere they need them. then on top of that serve more than 30 years because after 30 years you don't receive anymore retirement pay and I'll show you someone who was selfless in service to their country.
almost everybody who joins fits at least one of the categories above. now most of my posts in this thread I shouldn't of posted, not because I don't standby what I said, but because of what someone else said on jetcareers. It went something along the lines of you either contribute noise or you contribute something useful.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by b3181981

let me rephrase that,
the military is for the poor, or the stupid, or the ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up. You show me a guy that goes in with his asvabs scores and tells the recruiter to put them anywhere they need them. then on top of that serve more than 30 years because after 30 years you don't receive anymore retirement pay and I'll show you someone who was selfless in service to their country.
almost everybody who joins fits at least one of the categories above. now most of my posts in this thread I shouldn't of posted, not because I don't standby what I said, but because of what someone else said on jetcareers. It went something along the lines of you either contribute noise or you contribute something useful.

So, you're contributing noise. Got it.

Honestly, I'm basing this off of my own thinking, not off of what someone else on JC said. If you actually stand by what you think of enlisted military personnel, you really have very little respect for them, don't you?

[surreal1221]

You'd be surprised Steve.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

I missed this little gem on the first pass through.
Just so you know...

As the author of the well-written, carefully thought out, thought provoking, quoted, and reprinted article at the beginning of this thread-

8.5 year active duty US Army. 3 year-long overseas tours, 2 in combat.
A few minor combat decorations for meritorious service.

Three Stripes. Sergeant. Passed the promotion board for Staff Sergeant, but decided to get out.

I don't have a college degree yet, but mostly just because I'm only half way finished with it. College classes run a bit on the easy side for me and bore me to death.

I.Q. of 146.

You know not of what you speak.

Be quiet now and stop causing trouble.

Class dismissed.

I <3 Firebird!

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

I <3 Firebird!

Me too.

Charlie, you (or Stan the Man too!) going to be this way any time? First beer's on me...we arm wrestle for the rest. Winner buys.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Me too.

Charlie, you (or Stan the Man too!) going to be this way any time? First beer's on me...we arm wrestle for the rest. Winner buys.

I keep my eye open for overnights in your end of the world. Just haven't snagged any yet.

If it helps any, Stan and I work out of the same crew room and still haven't managed to link up for coffee, and not for want of trying either. Go figure.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by b3181981

let me rephrase that,
the military is for the poor, or the stupid, or the ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up. You show me a guy that goes in with his asvabs scores and tells the recruiter to put them anywhere they need them. then on top of that serve more than 30 years because after 30 years you don't receive anymore retirement pay and I'll show you someone who was selfless in service to their country.
almost everybody who joins fits at least one of the categories above. now most of my posts in this thread I shouldn't of posted, not because I don't standby what I said, but because of what someone else said on jetcareers. It went something along the lines of you either contribute noise or you contribute something useful.

I really try not to take generalities personally - but this one is a real test.

I dropped out of college in 1992 to enlist in the Army. My family is not poor, and was paying for college. I didn't need a leg up. I was 17 at the time, so I suppose I can't argue with being ignorant, but standardized tests alone are enough to suggest while I might not be the brightest, I'm at least not stupid.

I am not a unique individual. There were many like me.

In 15 years I served as a lowly private up to a company commander and have seen so many different people who joined for just as many reasons.

My question for you is, what experience leads you to believe that the military is for "the poor, or the stupid, or the ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up?" I assume because these were the only options you listed (aside from the 30 + year selfless service option), these are the ONLY reasons, or are at the very least the most LIKELY reasons.

Sure the poor join, as do the ignorant and people who need a leg up. "Stupid" would require a definition and testing prohibits the truly stupid from joining. But to categorically say that "the military is for "the poor, or the stupid, or the ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up" is far, far from reality.

I assume you've served in the military for many years to come to your conclusions?

[b3181981]

I didn't say people who enlist fit into every category, but near everybody and I mean damn near everybody fits into one of them.
when you enlisted in the army what did you sign up for? after you initial enlistment what did you do? I see you went from enlisted to officer so are you not trying to better yourself? also you signed up to fly helicopters, why?
Because it was probably thrilling, a challenge, you get paid to do something you enjoy, and on the outside leads to a very well paid career.
why would you only serve for 15 years when just one more enlistment you could retire? I read in some of your blogs you like being able to see your wife every night. Another thing and I'm not trying to bash you here but If their wasn't a war going on would you have finished your time to receive retirement?

[Kristie]

how did this thread get so off track?

I didn't say people who enlist fit into every category, but near everybody and I mean damn near everybody fits into one of them.

are you a military man? if not, i'd say you probably don't really know if this is true or not...and shouldn't be judging like that.

[b3181981]

what so only people who have been or are on the boat can talk about the boat?

[surreal1221]

You see Doug, you come down on someone for responding to the troll. . .yet the troll persists, spreading his filth and misguided thoughts.

I don't know. . .I can't say I fault anyone for reacting towards the troll for his/her numerous statements that remain unchanged. Your living room, but I'd be kicking the troll out rather than telling the good members who are challenging his thoughts and statements to work on their delivery sans insults. Not like the troll hasn't complied with such rulings. Perhaps because we all thought we could be men and simply handle the issues ourselves. Appears not.

Suppose it's time to start reporting post.

Here come a couple, with certain insults towards the enlisted members of this very website, et al.

[Doug Taylor]

Seriously, by all means, report the post.

Personally, I thought it was going to work itself out because he made an asinine statement and people with experience countered his statement with reason and logic. Kind of like ying and yang.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by b3181981

what so only people who have been or are on the boat can talk about the boat?

Uuuuusually makes for a more pertinent discussion. Otherwise, would we just throwing YouTubes, preconceived notions at one another and "My uncles barber's gardener sez I'm RIIIIIGHT!", n'est-ce pas?

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by b3181981

I didn't say people who enlist fit into every category, but near everybody and I mean damn near everybody fits into one of them.
when you enlisted in the army what did you sign up for? after you initial enlistment what did you do? I see you went from enlisted to officer so are you not trying to better yourself? also you signed up to fly helicopters, why?
Because it was probably thrilling, a challenge, you get paid to do something you enjoy, and on the outside leads to a very well paid career.
why would you only serve for 15 years when just one more enlistment you could retire? I read in some of your blogs you like being able to see your wife every night. Another thing and I'm not trying to bash you here but If their wasn't a war going on would you have finished your time to receive retirement?

I'll address your questions once you've addressed mine.

[surreal1221]

Reported. . .I thought it was working itself out as well.

I don't know. . .your place obviously . . .but sometimes harsh words need to be used when it's quite clear he isn't getting the reason and logic of the countering statements. Especially when it is in-regards to service members, no matter how poor, ignorant, or whatever they are; that type of language is never warranted.

I don't think I told you I love you this week. Sorry, I do love you.

[Doug Taylor]

I love you too man, sorry I haven't sent flowers recently.

FYI, there's an "off forum" discussion taking place as well.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Reported. . .I thought it was working itself out as well.

I don't know. . .your place obviously . . .but sometimes harsh words need to be used when it's quite clear he isn't getting the reason and logic of the countering statements. Especially when it is in-regards to service members, no matter how poor, ignorant, or whatever they are; that type of language is never warranted.

I don't think I told you I love you this week. Sorry, I do love you.

Let me discuss it with him. I can remain calm and rational.

[b3181981]

Originally Posted by Ian J

I'll address your questions once you've addressed mine.

I served in the airforce from 04sep01 to 03sep2005 as an electrical and environmental systems mechanic and after that with the dod for a year. the dumbest thing I've ever done was quit that job and I kick myself everyday for doing so. I got out because their was no benefit for me to stay in. I received top notch training, and made some excellent friends but I don't believe in that JFK speech " ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". if i had stayed in i would have ended up in Iraq serving in someone else's war. It is also kind of hard to re-up when your handed a job with three times the pay and a third less work load.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by b3181981

Yes poverty is a complex issue as some people have made whole careers out of studying it. I think the biggest problem with poverty in America is people have kids too young, buying things they don't need, and not investing in their education. I've seen people buy a brand new Ford f350 dual double cab with all the bells and whistles, while renting a home, going out two, three nights a week, not spending any money on education then doing all of that on borrowed money when they should just keep their nose to the grind stone. I've meet people who grew up with out running water or electricity for a large portion of their life and how did they better themselves? They joined the military. I say the Army enlisted is for the poor, stupid, ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up. It is kind of sad people have to put their lives and life on the line to get ahead.

.

There fixed a few things for you. You weren't in the Army by chance were you?

As for your comment about enlisted Army (military) members being stupid, ignorant, trying to get a leg up....Well that speaks for itself. Have you served in the Army or any branch of the service? I will go out on a limb and say no. The reason I say that is that no member serving in any branch would make that kind of comment about his or her fellow sailors, soldiers, airmen, or infantrymen.

If people are trying to get a leg up would that be smart instead of stupid or ignorant?