ALPA National Officers and Employees Salaries

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I wonder if ALPA has furloughed anyone, since the amount of people they represent are less in number one would assume they need less support staff.

Yes, ALPA has furloughed a large number of employees. The staff is a fraction of what it was when I first got elected.

[matt152]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

I am the walrus!

Coo coo kachoo!

[Orange Anchor]

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

Huge pay raise? When I was a member of the BOD I remember voting on a slight change as to how the President's pay was calculated. Nothing that I would call a pay raise though. BTW, since DW's pay was based on the top three ALPA pay rates he took a paycut too.

Good. You were on the BOD and you can put the rumors to rest. Let's go beyond 'pay' because that is the game the airline execs play so they appear to be getting paltry sums when anyone who reads the filings knows the real money is in the total compensation.

What was the total compensation for Dwayne in 2005?

As for the pay cut, I remember that little charade where he took the pay cut AFTER taking the raise. After the 'pay cut' he was still receiving more total compensation than before the pay raise.

[kellwolf]

When you say "total compensation," does that include things like hotel rooms on company business? I've seen some websites that include that for ALPA and other labor unions as part of the compensation package. Well, if stuff like that counts, I'm probably pushing 6 figures as a regional CA.....

[Capt. Caucasian]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

When you say "total compensation," does that include things like hotel rooms on company business? I've seen some websites that include that for ALPA and other labor unions as part of the compensation package. Well, if stuff like that counts, I'm probably pushing 6 figures as a regional CA.....

Yes, the IRS (thanks Bush administration) counts that stuff as "compensation". ALPA volunteers have to report that stuff to the IRS and then pay taxes on it, even though no cash was ever received.

As far as DW's paycheck, sorry I don't have a copy of his W-2 on me. I do remember discussing it at length and we thought it ironic that he would make more money flying the line (actual cash) because at the time NWA had not taken concessions. United, though, had already and their highest pay rate brought down the average.

[surreal1221]

Since we're discussing Total Compensation. . .a little thing I'm working on.

* Skywest Inc. - Jerry Atkin, CEO and President: $1,568,287

* Atlantic Southeast Airlines, Subsidiary of Skywest Inc. - Bradford Holt, President and COO: $502,806

* Republic Airways Holdings Inc. - Bryan BedFord, CEO and President: $2,025,314

* ExpressJet Holdings Inc. - James Ream, CEO and President: $894,461

* Pinnacle Airlines Corp - Philip Trenary, CEO and President: $1,209,156

* Delta Airlines Inc - Richard Anderson, CEO and Director: $3,329,488

* UAL Corporation (United Airlines) - Glenn Tilton, CEO and President: $10,314,769

* AMR Corporation (American Airlines) - Gerard Asprey, CEO and President: $4,601,165

* Continental Airlines, Inc - Larry Kellner, CEO: $7,308,334

http://tacticalrambling.blogspot.com...utive-pay.html

[Orange Anchor]

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

Yes, the IRS (thanks Bush administration) counts that stuff as "compensation". ALPA volunteers have to report that stuff to the IRS and then pay taxes on it, even though no cash was ever received.

Like per diem.. it is on your W-2 but when you show it was expensed, it is a wash.

As far as DW's paycheck, sorry I don't have a copy of his W-2 on me. I do remember discussing it at length and we thought it ironic that he would make more money flying the line (actual cash) because at the time NWA had not taken concessions. United, though, had already and their highest pay rate brought down the average.

You voted for a raise and don't know how much it was for? No idea of what he was given for expenses? Sounds like someone ripe for Atlanta city politics. Or the Clayton County education board...

I stand by the first point and that is merely focusing on 'pay' is a dodge... smoke and mirrors about how much is actually being distributed to an individual.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Orange Anchor

Like per diem.. it is on your W-2 but when you show it was expensed, it is a wash.

Depends on the per diem. Some is taxed, some isn't. So, it's not entirely a wash. Plus, some people that make the charts would count per diem as "compensation." Which really would put me over 6 figures for the year as a CA. Too bad that's not accurate.


BTW, I find it sad that in the info surreal came up with a guy that's led an airline into bankruptcy and to the brink of extinction is in the $10 mil range. Someone compared CEOs to sports stars. If that guy was on the Yankees, he'd have had a brick thrown through his window and fans would be screaming to trade him. Either that or Steinbrenner woulda fired him long ago.

[Capt. Caucasian]

Originally Posted by Orange Anchor

Like per diem.. it is on your W-2 but when you show it was expensed, it is a wash.

Big ol' honkin negative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Union (doesn't matter which) volunteers HAVE to pay taxes on items considered compensation by the IRS. Those include but, are not limited to: cell phone, hotel, meals, transportation, etc. These are actual dollars that we have to pay to the government although no actual dollars were received as pay. It would be like you having to pay taxes on the hotel you get on layovers or your per diem. Corporations don't have to do this, Unions do. Once again, thanks to the Bush administration.

You voted for a raise and don't know how much it was for? No idea of what he was given for expenses? Sounds like someone ripe for Atlanta city politics. Or the Clayton County education board...

I stand by the first point and that is merely focusing on 'pay' is a dodge... smoke and mirrors about how much is actually being distributed to an individual.

Nope, I don't remember. That was six years and three airlines ago. This is going to piss you off but, that was such a minor matter at the time that after the vote was over I promptly forgot most of the disscussion. I had many more important things going on at the time. Like, trying to figure out how not to declare bancrupcy or foreclose on my house, contract negociatations, and defending stupid pilots locking themselves out of the cockpit and then landing single pilot (happened).

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

...defending stupid pilots locking themselves out of the cockpit and then landing single pilot (happened).

Elaborate! Doowit! Yes! Yes!

[Capt. Caucasian]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Elaborate! Doowit! Yes! Yes!

Fine, I'll do it. This happened few months after we installed the hardened cockpit doors in the RJ. The doors have two locks. One is a slam latch that can only be unlocked from the inside and the other is a dead bolt with a key hole on the outside. The dead bolt has a limitation placarded right next to it that says, "DO NOT USE IN FLIGHT". For this reason when a pilot leaves the flight deck a FA has to go up there in case the other pilot becomes incapacitated they can let the other pilot back in.

Enough background, the FO says he needs to take a leak and asks the captain (CAL flowback) if he wants him to call the FA to come up. The captain declined saying that he would use the dead bolt and the FO could use his key to get back in.

Well, the FO tries using his key to no avail so, he calls up to the captain to ask him to unlock the door. He is unable to, the lock is stuck. Then, both kinda panic. The FO sits in seat 1A and the captain declares an emergency and diverts into PIT, single-pilot. The TSA and FBI almost got involved because they thought that it was a breach of the cockpit. They then figured out it was the opposite.

Now, I want you to ask yourself how you might get into the cockpit if it is stuck. I'll give you a minute .................................................. ................ During the diciplinary hearing the captain was asked why he just did not open the "doggy door" or the kick panels. Also, the fuselage will contract and expand as altitude changes allowing the latch to be unlocked. He didn't have an explanation, just that he panicked.

Well, we were able to negotiate a settlement that would allow him to keep his job. However, since he was a CAL pilot that had flowed back to Express Continental decided to fire him for willfully violating a aircraft limitation. He was still on probation over there so there was nothing we could do. I suppose the CAL reps could have fought for him but, I don't think that a CAL 1983 hire FO Rep really cared about him.

[DE727UPS]

"For this reason when a pilot leaves the flight deck a FA has to go up there in case the other pilot becomes incapacitated they can let the other pilot back in."

I always wondered why they did that....

Freight is great.

[Qgar]

Is that a knock on FA's?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Qgar

Is that a knock on FA's?

DE can answer for sure but I'd say of course not.

The whole cockpit door thing is why he said 'freight is great.' Because you get up and go pee whenever you want, get up and go get your food whenever you want, change into comfortable pajamas on a long haul if you want, and so forth.

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by Orange Anchor

You voted for a raise and don't know how much it was for?

I wasn't there for Duane's compensation package, but I was there for Prater's compensation package (he had just been elected minutes earlier, to my great dismay). I honestly couldn't tell you what the total dollar figure was without going and digging through my records from two years ago. I just remember that I considered it completely reasonable and not worthy of any debate.

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

This is going to piss you off but, that was such a minor matter at the time that after the vote was over I promptly forgot most of the disscussion

Oh, that's nothing, this'll really piss him off : I actually talked to the Officer Compensation Committee members to try to convince them to raise compensation for the 3 VPs. I felt that the President's compensation was fair, but that the other National Officers weren't getting nearly enough.

[Orange Anchor]

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

Corporations don't have to do this, Unions do. Once again, thanks to the Bush administration.

Right.. the D's, every working man's friend, didn't do anything while being in the majority. Sorry this had to lapse into a Bush bash but it does add another dimension to the debate. In case you have not noticed, the Ds, now in control, have done NOTHING to stop freezing/terminating pensions not only in the airline industry but also others. The odd thing that escapes most pilots is that many make too much to be democrats and too little to be republicans. As such, neither party favors the pilots or the 'union'

This is going to piss you off but, that was such a minor matter at the time that after the vote was over I promptly forgot most of the discussion.

Not pissed. Not even really angry. Moved through the SARA and have moved onto other things but in the process and during my tenure on a few committees and seeing some things that were just not right, excuse me if I don't accept the assertion that these guys are just altruists. But I do find it interesting that you remember the vote but nothing else. i guess that happens.

I had many more important things going on at the time. Like, trying to figure out how not to declare bancrupcy or foreclose on my house, contract negotiations and defending stupid pilots locking themselves out of the cockpit and then landing single pilot (happened).

Sorry about the financial strain. That seems to come with the territory these days. I also took some major hits with the pension termination and while you are talking about taxes, when the gov looked at the pensions, they declared the money the company set aside as 'non-qualified' and when it was disbursed, the Feds took 28% off the top. The company made out. The banks made out. The gov made out... no help from the Ds on trying to get that pension money qualified and thus not subject to the tax rip.

But to continue.. I spent more than a few hours talking to friends who had things fall apart when they took huge cuts. Lost houses, families broke up, marriages failed. Not pretty by any means. As for stupid pilot things, we had our share from guys taking off without sufficient fuel to letting an FA land the airplane. ??? ( or at least sit in the seat for landing).

Hope that things have improved for you.

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by Orange Anchor

Right.. the D's, every working man's friend, didn't do anything while being in the majority.

Kind of hard when you don't hold the White House or even a filibuster-proof majority.

In case you have not noticed, the Ds, now in control, have done NOTHING to stop freezing/terminating pensions not only in the airline industry but also others.

Actually, the Dems have been working very hard to tackle this issue. ALPA has been working with House and Senate Democrats for the last year on a bill that would solve the pension problem. Legislation is also in the works to fix the 1113(c) provisions that allow a judge to abrogate a labor agreement in bankruptcy, but we won't be able to get any of this through until Obama is elected. Just laying the ground work right now.

The odd thing that escapes most pilots is that many make too much to be democrats and too little to be republicans. As such, neither party favors the pilots or the 'union'

Absurd. Only a tiny handful of pilots make enough money to be affected by the lapsing of the Bush tax cuts, and even then only a small fraction of their total income will peak into the upper bracket. Besides, which hurts you more: a 5% tax hike, or a 45% wage cut? Choose wisely.

[Capt. Caucasian]

Originally Posted by Orange Anchor

Sorry about the financial strain. That seems to come with the territory these days. I also took some major hits with the pension termination and while you are talking about taxes, when the gov looked at the pensions, they declared the money the company set aside as 'non-qualified' and when it was disbursed, the Feds took 28% off the top. The company made out. The banks made out. The gov made out... no help from the Ds on trying to get that pension money qualified and thus not subject to the tax rip.

Seeing as you are in ATL and talk about the non-qualified stuff I guess we both fly planes with Widgets on them. My dad is in the same boat as you (retired May 2004) and lost a significant portion of his annuity. However, he puts full blame on the Republicans.

But to continue.. I spent more than a few hours talking to friends who had things fall apart when they took huge cuts. Lost houses, families broke up, marriages failed. Not pretty by any means. As for stupid pilot things, we had our share from guys taking off without sufficient fuel to letting an FA land the airplane. ??? ( or at least sit in the seat for landing).

Hope that things have improved for you.

As long as I don't get furloughed.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

"MEC Officer" is the Chairman, Vice-Chair, and Sec/Tres. These guys are full time flight pay loss.

Not true at all airlines. Ours is significantly different.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I wonder if ALPA has furloughed anyone, since the amount of people they represent are less in number one would assume they need less support staff.

There have been many early retirements/furloughs at Herndon.

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"For this reason when a pilot leaves the flight deck a FA has to go up there in case the other pilot becomes incapacitated they can let the other pilot back in."

I always wondered why they did that....

Freight is great.

The best thing about flying freighters is no "door guard" nonsense.

[Orange Anchor]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Oh, that's nothing, this'll really piss him off :

As I mentioned to Capt C, not pissed at all so once again you are wrong. Sorry about that (including smiley face which could be construed as some concerted effort to piss me off). With a batting average like that, you could play for the Braves... but that aside, you vote the way you see it but don't discount everyone else because they differ in opinion with you. Contrary to what you seem t0 think, others, including me, have not been just standing in some corn field uninformed. I also did some committee work so I am not a novitiate in respect to ALPA and some inner workings.

Many I knew were exemplary fellows.. and some, a very few, were just dirtbags who were mostly watching out for number 1.

[Orange Anchor]

Originally Posted by Capt. Caucasian

Seeing as you are in ATL and talk about the non-qualified stuff I guess we both fly planes with Widgets on them.

No. Another airline that had a base in ATL when I got hired (78) and then they closed the base and opened CLT. I became a 'migrant worker' and commuted. Like everyone else, a few mergers and an increasing hassle factor convinced me it was time to retire. The recent merger and ugly pushing and shoving that has ensued has only convinced me I made the right decision. And I continue to see guys around my seniority quit and find jobs elsewhere. One took a VP Ops position with another airline. One took a job with a fractional. What makes me shake my head is these guys were top notch, high quality work-horses respected by the line guys and with a record of constant achievement. You don't lose talent like that and not suffer consequences.

My dad is in the same boat as you (retired May 2004) and lost a significant portion of his annuity. However, he puts full blame on the Republicans.

But at least he walked out the door with half. We didn't even get THAT and the annuity is about 45% of the deferred compensation.

As long as I don't get furloughed.

I hope it doesn't happen. best of luck...

[Capt. Caucasian]

Originally Posted by Orange Anchor

No. Another airline that had a base in ATL when I got hired (78) and then they closed the base and opened CLT.

Ah, you might know a good friend of mine's dad with a last name of Ellot. He did the commute also for a few years before he got fed up in the early nineties. Also, I flew with a few x-Piedmont ATL guys at airline number one of four, Pace Airlines (Piedmont-Hawthorne).

[WacoFan]

How does ALPA measure the performance of the National Officers? Are there any metrics that are used to track these peoples success or failure? Lot's of pilots bitch about how horrible ALPA is, and at least that many defend ALPA. What do you, as pilots, use to gauge the effectiveness of the leadership team? In business we can track any variation of numbers and market data...what does ALPA use, or more importantly what do the members use to hold ALPA accountable for success? Contrary to what PCL says, the wages and benefits to ALPA officers is not exactly poverty - they are high incomes. Anyone approaching that income NEEDS to have a PITA job and work that hard - that is simply right. ALPA is a business - there must be some way that the management is held accountable.

Over the last year or so ALPA has lost US Airways, failed to be appointed at Colgan and has a strong Teamsters challenge this year, failed to be appointed at some other carriers (can't remember who now), allowed age 65 to pass (which is bad for some members/good for others - this may be a wash), and based upon some of the regional pilots here - they have completely ignored those people.

What have ALPA's successes been over the same time-frame? How is ALPA replacing the lost US Airways revenue? How is ALPA expanding their market share?

Just curious - I am generally a fan of ALPA - I think they have done good things.

[kellwolf]

Kinda tough for the Ds to do much, in the Senate. Most things require a 60% vote, and they have the majority by 1. That's not 60% if things fall along party lines.

[ATN_Pilot]

Originally Posted by WacoFan

ALPA is a business

I reject this entire premise. ALPA is not a business. ALPA is a union that exists for the sole purposes of defending and advancing the profession and protecting the membership. Unlike a business, there is no profit motive. Some pilots may like to take the cynical stance and believe that ALPA is really just another business, but as a rep that spent considerable amounts of time working at the national level, I can tell you that no one in Herndon thinks of the union as a business. It is a service and a brotherhood, even if the cynical don't want to believe that.