Airlines with furloughs

[IFly85]

Join the club Jeep, you must have been a class or two ahead of me.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Copperhed51

I love how Pinnacle wouldn't interview me because I didn't meet their min's. They sent me an email with the whole "you're gonna need to take a jet transition course if you want to get an interview" BS. I called them after I got that email and asked one of their recruiters if the fact that I had an SIC type rating and a couple hundred hours in a jet already would suffice for waiving the min's and of course they said no and that I would indeed need to take a jet transition course. Brilliant really. Sorry, not attacking you or anything, just find their agreement with these stupid flight schools to be ridiculous.

Dude, no attack taken. I agree with you 100%. I know guys that have been CFIing, teaching instrument students and dealing with busy airspace with 800-900TT and 300ME, and I couldn't get 'em a job here b/c they didn't meet some crazy minimum. They even got the "if you take a jet course we'll interview you" BS. Meanwhile, we've got guys with less than 200TT and less than 100 PIC time getting hired here asking "when am I gonna upgrade."

[SmoothLanderJ]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Dude, no attack taken. I agree with you 100%. I know guys that have been CFIing, teaching instrument students and dealing with busy airspace with 800-900TT and 300ME, and I couldn't get 'em a job here b/c they didn't meet some crazy minimum. They even got the "if you take a jet course we'll interview you" BS. Meanwhile, we've got guys with less than 200TT and less than 100 PIC time getting hired here asking "when am I gonna upgrade."

I 100% agree. That doesnt make any sense. I know a guy flying King Air's with around that kind of time and hasnt been called by PNCL yet.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by SmoothLanderJ

I 100% agree. That doesnt make any sense. I know a guy flying King Air's with around that kind of time and hasent been called by PNCL yet.

Sad but true. Steve and I have had this discussion. Had everything they needed. However would not take an RJ course and never got an, "come to an interview e mail." However had interviews with AWAC, PSA, ASA and RAH. Yet Pinnacle was a no go. Amazing how its happened.

[SmoothLanderJ]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Sad but true. Steve and I have had this discussion. Had everything they needed. However would not take an RJ course and never got an, "come to an interview e mail." However had interviews with AWAC, PSA, ASA and RAH. Yet Pinnacle was a no go. Amazing how its happened.

Exactly, and those are good places. I dont get it at all.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Meanwhile, we've got guys with less than 200TT and less than 100 PIC time getting hired here asking "when am I gonna upgrade."

those are THE worst! there was a kid in newhire initial when i was in upgrade. He lived in georgia, but was going to DTW. I asked why, he said "because there is more flying up there. So i can build my time and upgrade".....he got hired on at 300 hours!!!! I told him to relax, enjoy being an FO and your time will come to upgrade with you not having to worry about base jumping to build time faster. Unbelievable!

[kellwolf]

Oh man. Shoulda heard one of the APDs going off about some of those guys during my fed ride. Said he was doing an oral for a new hire, and the guy kept asking "so, when do you think I'll be able to upgrade." His response: "Son, you gotta get through me first, then you've got sims, a check ride, OE, probation and a whole lotta learning to do. Might wanna focus on that so you don't find yourself at McDonald's."

[surreal1221]

Being humble is not in some of these kids' minds.

[Trip7]

Originally Posted by blee256

those are THE worst! there was a kid in newhire initial when i was in upgrade. He lived in georgia, but was going to DTW. I asked why, he said "because there is more flying up there. So i can build my time and upgrade".....he got hired on at 300 hours!!!! I told him to relax, enjoy being an FO and your time will come to upgrade with you not having to worry about base jumping to build time faster. Unbelievable!

What the heck is wrong with that? The guy has 300 hrs and wants to build time and experience fast. I see nothing "unbelievable" about his statement. Should he just stay at a closer base like MEM, fly less and smell the roses? Everyone on here preaches experience, why knock a guy for wanting to get?

[surreal1221]

Marcus. . .dude. . .#### we need to get together for some drinks STAT! And bring our mutual friend RH along too. . .I have a feeling that guy can drink.

Dark clouds are forming comrade, aint nothing we can do about it.

This issue it appears is at the apparent lack of tact and inability to be somewhat humble when flying a machine that very quickly can kill someone with that type of attitude. I'm sure you'll agree - you don't want to be sharing a cockpit with one of "those" guys.

Right? I sure as hell don't.

[little_cricket]

Originally Posted by 777forever

What the heck is wrong with that? The guy has 300 hrs and wants to build time and experience fast. I see nothing "unbelievable" about his statement. Should he just stay at a closer base like MEM, fly less and smell the roses? Everyone on here preaches experience, why knock a guy for wanting to get?

It's why he wants the experience is the problem... There are many FOs so hurried to upgrade they forget to do their current job. For some reason, many stop learning and think they know it all now that they are airline pilots. I don't know why there are more cases of the "I special syndrome" now or maybe it just seems that way and I am getting old. I flew with a FO that was so excited to upgrade as soon as possible, but he barely (couldn't without help) fly an ILS. Until we talked about it, he didn't recognize that he would be on his own with somebody like him and that without improving his skill set that he would probably kill himself and a bunch of people, too.

[surreal1221]

Sometimes we just need to be sat down and told what the hell is going on - after failing.

It's a harsh reality, but works miracles in the military.

Why we should be nice and soft with college educated kids with $100,000 worth of education and flight training loans is beyond me.

I'm thankful some Captains have the balls to come right out and say stuff, because I expect them to do. You see me do something totally ####ing stupid, GET ON MY ASS about it.

Then again, maybe I realize emotions have no place in the cockpit - so I don't take things personal if I'm dicking up. 50+ people in the back depend on OUR collective decision making and overall competence.

Nevertheless. . .I digress. You experience Captains duke this one out.

[bike21]

Originally Posted by little_cricket

It's why he wants the experience is the problem... There are many FOs so hurried to upgrade they forget to do their current job. For some reason, many stop learning and think they know it all now that they are airline pilots. I don't know why there are more cases of the "I special syndrome" now or maybe it just seems that way and I am getting old. I flew with a FO that was so excited to upgrade as soon as possible, but he barely (couldn't without help) fly an ILS. Until we talked about it, he didn't recognize that he would be on his own with somebody like him and that without improving his skill set that he would probably kill himself and a bunch of people, too.

Same here. The vast majority of FOs I fly with are cool beans, but there are a few that seem to believe they have already upgraded or talk about it constantly.

These cats need to do their job, learn, be cool and relax. In the end it really is just a job. Have fun and enjoy the journey I say.

[gtpilot]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Sometimes we just need to be sat down and told what the hell is going on - after failing.

It's a harsh reality, but works miracles in the military.

Why we should be nice and soft with college educated kids with $100,000 worth of education and flight training loans is beyond me.

Nobody seems to like personal responsibility these days!

I'm thankful some Captains have the balls to come right out and say stuff, because I expect them to do. You see me do something totally ####ing stupid, GET ON MY ASS about it.

Every captain I've flowing with after OE has been like this - have had a couple get short with me in tight situations but afterward, 'Hey man, I appreciate you looking out for me. Sorry if I sounded too short with you!'


Hmm....methinks we got sidetracked a bit...

[surreal1221]

Good deal gt. Everyone I've encountered thus far have been great and a real joy to fly with.

I haven't had anyone get on my ass - yet - but It's bound to happen. Trouble is, most of these cats we're talking about - don't think that they can do any wrong and then they get all teary-eyed after someone jumps down their back about doing something stupid (Heard about 3 stories each from ALL of my OE Captains about such situations, at various phases of flight). Toughen up kids, this isn't College or a Frat (or a Sorority), this is real life death machine ####.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by 777forever

What the heck is wrong with that? The guy has 300 hrs and wants to build time and experience fast. I see nothing "unbelievable" about his statement. Should he just stay at a closer base like MEM, fly less and smell the roses? Everyone on here preaches experience, why knock a guy for wanting to get?

9/10 the guys with this attitude have the learning switch set in the "off" position. Try to teach them something, but they already know everything. They know just enough to get themselves in a hole but not enough to get themselves out of it. It's that type of attitude that leads to accidents and incidents. Too many guys think "Well, I passed JetU, I've got a type rating and I've made it through my SIC ride at a 121 regional. I'm ready to upgrade now, so all I need to do is fly a lot and meet the mins." The problem is, they don't pay attention on those "time building" hours. You're not building TIME, you're building EXPERIENCE. Problem is, a lot of these guys in the "when can I upgrade" camp don't see it that way. It's almost an entitlement mentality.

[scflyin]

I ask just about every captain I fly with to let me know what I can improve on. Heck I have even told them to not worry about sounding like an arse. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by scflyin

I ask just about every captain I fly with to let me know what I can improve on. Heck I have even told them to not worry about sounding like an arse. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

I did that regularly as well, when I was an FO. I'd ask them to sound off and let me know if you see something I should/ shouldn't be doing! Otherwise, how are you going to learn?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by scflyin

I ask just about every captain I fly with to let me know what I can improve on. Heck I have even told them to not worry about sounding like an arse. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

In my opinion it has a lot to do with not only putting it out there that you're willing and want to learn, but it sets the right tone.

As a student pilot, I always said the following words to my instructor before we even got into the plane. "Don't hesitate to correct me right when I screw up, otherwise waiting an hour or an hour and a half after the fact I very well may not remember exactly what I did."

It always worked for me. I also made it extremely clear to all of my students to be humble and up front with me, and any other instructor they flew with. They got the idea, and essentially begin telling me the same thing. "Correct me now, not an hour or two hours later or during a debrief."

Now in the 121 environment, setting the cockpit tone is key to both of us (FO and CP) being on the same playing field when it comes to doing something stupid.

If you're the first one to say "Look man, I'm a big boy, if you see something stupid or if you have any bits of wisdom to pass along - don't hesitate to pass it along right when I screw up" it's obviously a humbling experience, but it'll usually develop a similar response from the Captain in regards to him doing something that you don't like.

Really comes down to setting the right tone for a good CRM environment.

[granlistillo]

Originally Posted by scflyin

I ask just about every captain I fly with to let me know what I can improve on. Heck I have even told them to not worry about sounding like an arse. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

Me too. When you stop learning, then maybe complancency is the next step??

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by bike21

Same here. The vast majority of FOs I fly with are cool beans, but there are a few that seem to believe they have already upgraded or talk about it constantly.

These cats need to do their job, learn, be cool and relax. In the end it really is just a job. Have fun and enjoy the journey I say.

Same here. Most are really fun to fly with perceptive and insightful as you can be with <1000hrs. Its the ones that want the prize with out running the race. They are usually the ones that don't get the big picture and like to cut corners. For most of their sake I'm glad they aren't uprgrading right now.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by scflyin

I ask just about every captain I fly with to let me know what I can improve on. Heck I have even told them to not worry about sounding like an arse. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

That's a good practice, but please don't say it to your check airman when you're on IOE. It's all I can do to keep from laughing when someone tells me that on their first day of IOE.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

That's a good practice, but please don't say it to your check airman when you're on IOE. It's all I can do to keep from laughing when someone tells me that on their first day of IOE.

So needless to say, you wouldn't like the "My ego's at home... in the bedroom" *wink* during the brief?

(No, I did NOT say that but I heard it once!)

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

So needless to say, you wouldn't like the "My ego's at home... in the bedroom" *wink* during the brief?

(No, I did NOT say that but I heard it once!)

Haha, I would laugh at that one. Really though, if a checkairman is worried about sounding like an ass, he/she has no business being a checkairman.