List of CRJ-700 Average Pay

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by 777forever

If you're grossing over 40k at the regionals 2nd yr and can't afford to pay the bills you got alot of other problems besides blaming the man....

You're missing the point man. Right over the top of your head. A lot of us can pay our bills, but maybe we aspire for something more. Maybe we aspire to get away from the 10 year old car driving, small apartment living, limited entertainment budget living that $40,000+ flight training and a $40,000+ 4-year education allows for.

To top it off, that $40k/yr can instantly dry up at a moments notice, back to first year pay or worse furloughed for extended time frames.

I absolutely love the airline lifestyle, love flying, love everything about scheduled 121. But it's negatives are really starting to sink in. What really hurts is to see some folks who've spent the majority of their lives at airlines, only to shut down. Then where are they? They followed the dream only to end up in a nightmare.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Bama

You misread a little. There's a ton of jobs that take years of training. There's also a ton of jobs out there that take little to no training yet are compensated nearly twice what some of us make. It's just skewed. You seem like a smart dude. Think about it. You'll figure it out.

Thanks for the encouragement, but I am not so quick on the uptake sometimes. What sorts of jobs do you mean?

[aloft]

Originally Posted by Bama

Any one of us could easily be trained to do almost any other job out there, and do it well in a matter of days. But try putting a stock trader or a salesman in a cockpit..... nothing against those dudes...

Boy, you think awfully highly of yourself. Do you really think you could be easily trained to become a trader and do it well in a matter of days?

Certainly not with an aviation degree....

[Bama]

Certainly don't have an aviation degree.

Wow, it's amazing how unfocused from the actual point you insist on being.

If you wanna take that tone then, sure, I do. I could perform open heart surgery after searching for it on wikepedia, in fact.

My best friend stocks beer around town for an alcohol distributor and receives $45k a year. Starting pay. Need I say more.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume I think any more higher of myself than you or anybody else. (not even the weird guy downstairs... joke)

[Bama]

however, after reading I can see how the first post seems a little elitist. My apologies.

I digress.

[surreal1221]

Bama. . .it really is okay to feel elitest. Confidence in one's abilities allows them to gain more than their peers. Don't back down.

[Copperhed51]

Originally Posted by Scandinavian13

I don't mean to be dismissive, but does anyone still fly because they really love it?
Sure, pay might not be spectacular, you may not be rolling in cash, and bills can be difficult, but sometimes I gather that some people are just in it for the money, then get upset they're not making trans-atlantic/pacific money in their first years.

I know that's a harsh accusation, and please understand I make it based off of pilots I've met at airports, family member pilots and other things. I'm not going solely off of what I see here, so I'm not trying to be accusatory to anyone here in specific, or in general. It's just a question.

I don't have a job as a pilot, yet, but flying's all I've ever wanted to do. I know I'll probably have cruddy pay for a little while at some point. I know there will be days I'll come home and complain about this controller or that, but in the end I'll still love it. I'm sure you all do too.

Is there anything you can do about the pay? Probably not much. So why not just love what you have a little more, figure out a way to live with what you've got for now and hope for better in the future? There are some who got dumped from the industry a few years back who have never made it back in. I'm sure some of them would love the low pay just to fly again.

Try to be that pilot out there that, whenever people get their crew pairings, the other crew members sit there and think *hey, I love flying with this guy/gal - they must really love their job.* You might not love it at every single moment, but I know for sure it's more fun to work with someone who's enthusiastic about their job, than someone who dreads it and gripes about it all day.

Again, I don't know what any of you are going through. I can't know. I haven't experienced it. I'm not trying to say anyone here is at fault. I'm just saying if it's not going to change, why not make the best of it, enjoy yourself now and plan for the future? Be happy you have a flying job. Be happy you get paid anything to fly, instead of having to pay $100+ per hour.

Fly because you love it...

I enjoy flying but it's not the love of my life by any means. I really did enjoy the 121 lifestyle while it lasted but I really hated the fact that I lived in a crashpad while in STL and at home with my parents when back in KC and I could still barely afford to pay the few bills that I have. I want to be able to start saving a significant amount of money for my retirement and I'm unable to do that. Now that I've been furloughed, I'm obviously doing even worse. No, money is not everything but $22,000/yr is no compensation for being away from home 20+ days per month and working unpredictable, long hours doing a job that takes a great deal of training and money to get into.

Honestly, this thread was intended to get people off of their high horses and realize that attacking each over a dollar or two of pay is not helping. We're all getting paid crap. We all have taken crappy pay to fly these airplanes and just because you did it to a slightly lesser degree than another guy doesn't make you that important. We're all individuals with our own individual needs and that will always come first even if it's not what's best for the group we belong to. That's how people work. However, maybe if we all realize that attacking each other over 2 dollars an hour difference at airline A vs airline B is pretty retarded, then we'll be a better group....maybe not, I dunno. Honestly I'd be very interested in a national strike to show how united we are but because we are not a cohesive group, it will never happen.

[Ian J]

[surreal1221]

The big issue with bringing up pay scales is how it affects the rest of the industry.

Airline A accepts Payrate X for Airframe A.

Airline B begins contract negotiations. The pilot group is weak, and they end up accepting Payrate X-$2 (That's X minus $2) for Airframe A. *Gee Thanks Guys!*

Airline C is now in contract negotiations. The pilot group is stronger, and will fight for they feel is just, unlike Airline B. They fight and fight and fight, eventually the compensation sections goes to arbitration. The arbitrator looks around at other payrates for Airframe A. Arbitrator then decides that Payrate X-$3 (X minus $3) is industry average. The End.

Jacking up the House one corner at a time is damn near impossible when one of the four corners consistently flops over for whatever "contract improvement" their ###### company will give them.

Hence why many of us give a #### about other companies pay rates.

[Polar742]

Scandanavian,

I've done this along-ish time.

I love to fly. It does get boring on occasion sitting there watching the automation do it's thing. However, fly a river vis into DCA...deviating around storms without getting rocked, busting thru a solid overcast to see the millions of stars out on a smooth night, flying the Visual into 9 at EYW, the Expressway vis into LGA, figuring out some approach in a far away land is good stuff.

Alot of the outside the cockpit stuff sucks. If you can separate those things, it makes the job more enjoyable.

Another enjoyable part is when I walk away from the airport, my job doesn't follow me. I don't have to check a crackberry, I don't have calls from work at the house.

I'd discuss the monetary downfalls, but those have been gone over ad nauseum.

There are some serious downsides to the career, especially if all you want to do is fly for airlines. There is other money to be made and other types of flying that are alot more fun. It took me along time to open my eyes to it, but they exist. Now, in spite of the down turn in the airlines, I still see lots of opportunities to fly professionally and make money.

The regionals aren't the end-all,be all career advancement tool. One paid my bills for 9 years, and did so quite well. I got lucky though.

No matter what you choose, it's your journey and adventure. Make it YOUR own.

[Scandinavian13]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Look Kyle, that's great you love to fly, and it's great that you want to do it professionally, but you pretty much answered your own question.

Flying for a living is NOTHING like you think it is going to be, and I can say that with almost 100% certainty, even though I really have no clue what you actually think it is going to be like. Sure, most people who fly for a living enjoy it. Just like a doctor likes what they do or a roofer likes climbing up a ladder every day. Really. Nothing more, nothing less.

The problem is, for what ever reason, the job has been over glamorized since the Wright Brothers started cruising the neighborhood. And because of that a lot of people get into it because they think flying is something special. And the flying part IS in fact pretty special. Humans sure as hell weren't designed to fly, so being able to get around that is amazing. And if the job was JUST flying, I think you would be justified in thinking what you do.

But unfortunately VERY little of this job is flying. Check out my schedule today. All I do is a 2 leg turn from Dayton to Charlotte and back up. That's it. It's blocked for about 2 hours and 30 minutes of "time", however, I am going to be "at work" for 4 hours. On top of that, it takes me about 45 minutes to get to the airport so add in 1:30 for the round trip. Oh, and of that 2:05 of flight time (that I'm actually getting paid for) MAYBE 1:45 of it will actually be "in the air" with the rest spent taxiing out or back in.

So:
7:00 of my day taken up by work
5:30 of duty time
2:45 sitting in the airplane
1:45 off the ground
0:15 actually flying the plane (maybe)

And that's actually a pretty good day. Last trip the last day was 14:45 of duty and about 4:05 of "flight time" of which I hand flew maybe 20 minutes.

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad job. I'd rather be doing this right now then anything else, but the actual FLYING part is relatively small compared to the other stuff.

From working at Dulles, I've picked up on a lot of the regional life from blathering on and on with the pilots there, so I've picked up a lot of what you've just said. Having not experienced it for myself, though, I'm still not going to claim I know for sure what the regionals truly are all about. I'm not saying it's not crappy, and the situation couldn't be vastly improved. I'm just saying it would be nice to see someone who can let things go and enjoy what they're doing. I know news is seldom good, as are comments in general. When things are good, we're content and silent, but when things go wrong, we're irritated and vocal. I know for a fact each and every pilot likes/loves flying somewhere at the core of it all. It's just really irritating to me as an aspiring pilot to see people have something I've always wanted (as far as I can remember) and gripe about it so much.

Again, I'm not saying I know anything of what you're going through, but sometimes I think it would be nice to meet someone who doesn't appear to hate their job because of what everyone else gets (etc, etc).

Originally Posted by pilot4500

I think that most of us fly because we love it. However, when you don't make enough money to pay your bills, it does tend to take a lot of the enjoyment out of flying. What are you going to do when you have to tell your significant other that you have to choose between buying food or paying the power bill because you don't have enough money to do both? If you don't mind living or ramen noodles, taking a vow of celibacy, and maybe living with mom and dad to save money, then its great.

What is really sad is that there are a lot of people who would line up to work for even less money than what was posted above, just so they can fly a nice new jet and wear a snazzy uniform. That is what hurts all of us in the long run.

With that said, flying is something that I love, and I always will. It is a whole different ball game when you try to make a living at it though.

I agree with you, wholeheartedly. My point is more that griping about what such-and-such gets for whatever isn't going to help anything. The situation sucks. Hopefully it gets better. Being miserable all the time surely isn't going to help much. In the mean time, trudge through it and look for something to be happy about.

To be honest, again, I don't know what you're going through, but this pay thing is beaten to death every time. To me, it's just a buzzkill to see everyone so downtrodden. Sure, it might not be your fault at all. I don't know. Again, I can't know and I'm not trying to let on that I do. I'm not the best person to always look on the bright side of things and I have my off days, but so much is made of this money issue. I just see things in a different way, I guess. To me, crap pay in the regionals is just a stepping stone to a better job with a better carrier making a lot more money down the line, but I don't know exactly how all of this works, so I thank those of you who corrected/informed me. I understand where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by Copperhed51

Honestly, this thread was intended to get people off of their high horses and realize that attacking each over a dollar or two of pay is not helping. We're all getting paid crap. We all have taken crappy pay to fly these airplanes and just because you did it to a slightly lesser degree than another guy doesn't make you that important. We're all individuals with our own individual needs and that will always come first even if it's not what's best for the group we belong to. That's how people work. However, maybe if we all realize that attacking each other over 2 dollars an hour difference at airline A vs airline B is pretty retarded, then we'll be a better group....maybe not, I dunno. Honestly I'd be very interested in a national strike to show how united we are but because we are not a cohesive group, it will never happen.

Sorry. I didn't mean to make it into something it wasn't. I guess I had just heard enough of it at work, and saw this and pounced. Like I've said, I agree the situation is crap, but it's all what you make of it. If you let it bother you too much, it will. I'm not saying it shouldn't bother you, I'm just saying it won't be nearly as bothersome if it wasn't concentrated on so much. I'm not perfect, either, and I'm not trying to put off that I love working on the ramp for $9.74/hour every day from 1400-2230 (and beyond). To me, though, you all are why I'm there. I work there so I can play with the airplanes and hang out with you all and talk about flying. Yes, I think my job sucks on certain days and it bothers me a good bit, especially when everything on the ramp is broken, but I still get excited whenever I get to go hang out with a crew I haven't seen in a while.

I just think the whole pay arguments are counter-productive and silly. It creates divides in pilot groups and it won't fix anything.

Originally Posted by Polar742

Scandanavian,

I've done this along-ish time.

I love to fly. It does get boring on occasion sitting there watching the automation do it's thing. However, fly a river vis into DCA...deviating around storms without getting rocked, busting thru a solid overcast to see the millions of stars out on a smooth night, flying the Visual into 9 at EYW, the Expressway vis into LGA, figuring out some approach in a far away land is good stuff.

Alot of the outside the cockpit stuff sucks. If you can separate those things, it makes the job more enjoyable.

Another enjoyable part is when I walk away from the airport, my job doesn't follow me. I don't have to check a crackberry, I don't have calls from work at the house.

I'd discuss the monetary downfalls, but those have been gone over ad nauseum.

There are some serious downsides to the career, especially if all you want to do is fly for airlines. There is other money to be made and other types of flying that are alot more fun. It took me along time to open my eyes to it, but they exist. Now, in spite of the down turn in the airlines, I still see lots of opportunities to fly professionally and make money.

The regionals aren't the end-all, be all career advancement tool. One paid my bills for 9 years, and did so quite well. I got lucky though.

No matter what you choose, it's your journey and adventure. Make it YOUR own.

Thank you for that. I'm glad to hear someone who can separate the crap from the more enjoyable parts.
[That's not to say he's the only one and everyone else is just a regional grouch.]

Thanks, again, to the rest of you who gave me some insight as to why the pay discussions exist. I stand moderately corrected/informed.

[kellwolf]

You have to be really good at leaving work at work. I mean REALLY good. Especially if you're in contract negotiations.

I love spending time with my wife and kid, but it doesn't pay the bills. I love flying, but like has been mentioned in this thread and the board in general countless times, flying is a small part of the 121 job. I flew almost 1000 hours last calendar year, and credited over that. I was on second year pay, and ya know what? Still couldn't pay all the bills without getting a deferral on the student loans. (777Forever, re-read that one and check the attitude, no everyone grosses $40K+ second year....in fact most don't). The problem we've got at the regional level is you need to spend so much $$$ to even get there, and the financial rewards for doing so just aren't there. Hence the reason guys drive 10 year old cars, live in a small apartment or stay with mom and dad (or 5 other pilots in a 3 bedroom). Fact is, a job you spend $100K (in some cases) to get shouldn't leave you in that kinda of a situation. You should at least be able to afford a 2 year old car and have your own place while still being able to meet payments on the loans.

Fact: this career is overglamorized by both the media and the marketing personnel at the big flight schools and colleges with flight programs. The media honestly doesn't have a clue, and the flight training places don't really care what happens after they get your $$$. I've seen proof of that with the "There's a pilot shortage and we've got a bridge program with XXX airlines." "Uh, but they aren't hiring right now." "Well, they still INTERVIEW our guys." Which I found out "interview" meant that people were being put on a list for interviews at some point in the future. I luckily ducked out on that one, two good friends of mine got screwed out of $20K+.

Yeah, I like coming to work. I've had jobs where I'd rather call in sick than get out of bed and go to work. I only call in sick on this job if I've got one foot in the grave. That being said, if I were to look into gettting into it now....wouldn't happen. There's no way I could pay the current cost of training and support myself, my wife and my kid on today's regional wages. And, frankly, that's sad. The contract offer from our management was called by them a "good deal and industry average," however the pay raise for CAs didn't even cover the inflation increase from 2005. We'd essentially be taking a pay CUT once inflation was factored in. On the FO side, 2nd year FO pay goes up to about normal for what it is at other regionals now, but not much the other years. They'd essentially be taking a cut as well once inflation's factored in. Add to that the deal would lock us into those wages for possibly 5 years, and we'd be taking cuts every year, especially this year since all the econ-gurus are saying inflation is gonna be killer this year.