Yay Jumpseat Wars!

[zmiller4]

Important Letter to United Pilots

June 30, 2008

To United Airlines pilots:

On behalf of the Jumpseat Committees representing all of the carriers flying as United Express, welcome aboard. Unfortunately, this letter has been provided to you because you will likely be affected by a difficult decision, reluctantly arrived at by the United Express (UAX) pilots. Over the last couple of years, United Airlines (UAL) has made changes to the gate jumpseating and priority software programs. Several of these changes have adversely affected not only the UAX pilots, but also the UAL pilots, as well. There is widespread confusion and frustration amongst many of the pilots regarding how the gate computer sorts priorities for jumpseat requests. Based upon the UAX agreement tables, jumpseat requests on UAX flights are supposed to be processed like this:

1. On their own flights, UAX pilots are sorted first, in order of their seniority.
2. UAL pilots and “other” UAX pilots are sorted next, in order of their check-in.
3. Non UAL/UAX pilots (“offline pilots”) are then sorted, in order of their check-in.

HOWEVER, the current software being used by UAL does NOT sort jumpseat requests in this order. Instead, all jumpseat requests are sorted as if the flight were a mainline UAL flight. This means that UAX pilots are being bumped by UAL pilots on their own UAX flights. The computer software also sorts some UAX pilots as if they were offline pilots, even on their own flights. Despite nine (9) months of repeated appeals to UAL management, and despite the fact that a minor software change would solve this issue (simply change the computers to recognize the carriers’ flight number) UAX carriers have recently been told that UAL will not fix this blatant degradation of our jumpseat agreements because to do so would not generate revenue for UAL. This position is untenable.

We have now sent a detailed letter to UALPA’s MEC, addressing these very important issues, and we have provided UALPA with specific examples of where UAL has made non-revenue generating changes to the gate software. The UAX pilots have respectfully requested that the gate jumpseat software be fixed within thirty (30) days. Regrettably, if UAL does not fix the jumpseat software within thirty (30) days, UAX pilots will be left with no other choice but to deny all UAL pilots any requests for the jumpseat, regardless of aircraft tail-colors beginning 08/31/08.

On behalf of all UAX pilots, we sincerely hope that we will not be forced to deny any UAL pilot a ride, as we are mindful of the fact that many UAL pilots will be negatively impacted. To that end, we are simply asking that you immediately call or email your MEC to let them know how important your UAX commute is, and to help us all obtain a fair and just resolution. Thank you for your professionalism and active cooperation.

Signed, the pilots of:

Chautauqua Airlines
Colgan Airlines
Go Jets Airlines
Mesa Air Group
Shuttle America
SkyWest Airlines

This is exactly what I need to hear before heading to the airport to a full mainline flight for my commute. The way UAL has handled this is ridiculous, though--gate agents will give priority for the JS to a mainline pilot on a UAX flight even over that UAX carriers own pilots. Apparently, we've been resorting to emailing captains beforehand or having crew support patch us through to captains in order to establish proper priority.

A couple of interesting things...I'm not sure if TSA and Republic's JS committees were involved in this, but they apparently didn't sign. Also, it would be *excellent* if UAL pilots no longer had priority over UAX pilots on other UAX carriers. Currently, if a Mesa guy lists for the JS on a Skywest flight an hour beforehand, a UAL guy can show up 10 prior and bump him. It's been this way for a while, and I hadn't heard anything about trying to fix it, but maybe now it will be.

[surreal1221]

Sounds like more of a Crew Support / Scheduling software issue than individual pilot groups and their associated JS Committees.

Good luck though, hopefully some IT gurus somewhere can pull their heads out of their asses and get this stuff actually working as written.

[WacoFan]

Since someone else has brought up the "jumpseat wars" topic, this is not the only one. Apparently Alaska's MEC has had a <jumpseat resolution> amendment which would prohibit JS'ers on Alaska from VA, JetBlue, and Allegiant. I saw this posted somewhere else, but have no access to the document to post it myself.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by WacoFan

Since someone else has brought up the "jumpseat wars" topic, this is not the only one. Apparently Alaska's MEC has had a <jumpseat resolution> amendment which would prohibit JS'ers on Alaska from VA, JetBlue, and Allegiant. I saw this posted somewhere else, but have no access to the document to post it myself.

They do. In fact, I think it was either written or heavily influenced by one of our very own.

As much as I don't like using the jumpseat as a political tool, if an entire pilot group votes on a ban like AS is proposing, I have no problem with that. That's how a union works. Also, I agree that if UAL management won't remedy this issue, preventing a thousand or so UAL guys from getting to work for a week or so will probably fix the problem.

[Velocipede]

Just so everyone doesn't get wrapped around the axle, this is a LONG way from getting approved. First, it has to be voted on by the members of Council 67. If a majority vote for it, then it goes to the MEC. They also have to approve it. Frankly, there's not much chance that this will ever see the light of day, but sometimes you've just got to draw a line in the sand.

As long as Union pilots keep enabling the non-Union guys undercutting our contracts by giving them free transportation to and from work, the downward spiral in this industry will continue.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by zmiller4

This is exactly what I need to hear before heading to the airport to a full mainline flight for my commute. The way UAL has handled this is ridiculous, though--gate agents will give priority for the JS to a mainline pilot on a UAX flight even over that UAX carriers own pilots. Apparently, we've been resorting to emailing captains beforehand or having crew support patch us through to captains in order to establish proper priority.

This can be prevented if the captains go into the gate area and see who the jumpseaters are. It's the captains decision, not some gate software on who gets on board. Captains need to take charge of their flights and their jumpseaters. Hopefully y'all will be seeing some more encouragement to go into the gate area in the near future.

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

This can be prevented if the captains go into the gate area and see who the jumpseaters are. It's the captains decision, not some gate software on who gets on board. Captains need to take charge of their flights and their jumpseaters. Hopefully y'all will be seeing some more encouragement to go into the gate area in the near future.

Agreed.

[GaTechKid]

Using the jumpseat as a political tool. Yay. I hope the designers of this jumpseat war have to commute on United mainline as well.

[doug_or]

Originally Posted by GaTechKid

Using the jumpseat as a political tool. Yay. I hope the designers of this jumpseat war have to commute on United mainline as well.

I don't like any of what is going on, and certainly don't endorse the methods, but...

This isn't really political as much as it is about reciprocity and honoring the jumpseat agreements that are in place. As long as UAALPA refuses to work with the UAX carriers this is something that they have brought upon themselves.


...Thank god I don't I don't commute anymore.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Just so everyone doesn't get wrapped around the axle, this is a LONG way from getting approved. First, it has to be voted on by the members of Council 67. If a majority vote for it, then it goes to the MEC. They also have to approve it. Frankly, there's not much chance that this will ever see the light of day, but sometimes you've just got to draw a line in the sand.

As long as Union pilots keep enabling the non-Union guys undercutting our contracts by giving them free transportation to and from work, the downward spiral in this industry will continue.

Are you referring to the Alaska MEC thing that I read a day or two ago? I'm not sure if you're replying to the UAL/UALExpress post at the top of this thread since what you've written matches perfectly with the Alaska proposal.

[Bumblebee]

Originally Posted by Nick

Are you referring to the Alaska MEC thing that I read a day or two ago? I'm not sure if you're replying to the UAL/UALExpress post at the top of this thread since what you've written matches perfectly with the Alaska proposal.

velocipede is talking about the Alaska proposal. As far as the UAX JS; Trans States gave UAL pilots priority over their own pilots on TS jumpseats. Right now, if left up to the software and the gate agent UAL & TS pilots are given preference over SkW pilots on SkW airplanes.

For those of you concerned about starting a jumpseat war over this letter, I would only suggest this perspective; The war had already begun, but it was a sneak attack. This letter is the open declaration that war will commence if the UAL pilot group does not bring pressure to bear on UALPA to do the right thing.

[surreal1221]

And after reading the most recent posts. . .it is clear to me that this is not a jumpseat war, but rather an way to hopefully correct the silly gate software.

Point the blame where the blame is due.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Just so everyone doesn't get wrapped around the axle, this is a LONG way from getting approved. First, it has to be voted on by the members of Council 67. If a majority vote for it, then it goes to the MEC. They also have to approve it. Frankly, there's not much chance that this will ever see the light of day, but sometimes you've just got to draw a line in the sand.

As long as Union pilots keep enabling the non-Union guys undercutting our contracts by giving them free transportation to and from work, the downward spiral in this industry will continue.

All well and good until one of them is your only option for a ride to work. Get over yourselves already. Everybody is undercutting somebody in this industry, it's called a free market.

[L-16B]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Just so everyone doesn't get wrapped around the axle, this is a LONG way from getting approved. First, it has to be voted on by the members of Council 67. If a majority vote for it, then it goes to the MEC. They also have to approve it. Frankly, there's not much chance that this will ever see the light of day, but sometimes you've just got to draw a line in the sand.

As long as Union pilots keep enabling the non-Union guys undercutting our contracts by giving them free transportation to and from work, the downward spiral in this industry will continue.

That sounds more like starting a jumpseat war than anything else i've read on this thread.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by L-16B

That sounds more like starting a jumpseat war than anything else i've read on this thread.

So, its your position that non-Union pilots should have unlimited access to Union negotiated benefits on other airlines?

The problem is not enough airline pilots, being basicly non-confrontational personality types, have the balls to tell someone to pound sand.

Can you imagine a non-Union electrician going into the IBEW hall and asking those guys for a ride to work because "hey, I'm an electrician and I'm just trying to feed my family."



What we tend to forget is we're just blue collar labor. And we have nothing to withold from our employers BUT our labor. As long as there is tangible proof for employers that there are plenty of pilots willing to work for less wages and fewer benefits, we will have ZERO legitimate bargaining power.

So let's take the guys who are showing managment they'll do our jobs for 40% less to their base airports.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

[mikecweb]

Personally I think Alaska's pilots should take a second look before taking such a step. The three airlines they listed do a lot of good things for a lot of pilots and Alaska may find itself the odd man out when it comes to agreements.
Personal opinion only.

Politics has no place on the jumpseat.

[Velocipede]

Its not political. Political is AWA guys denying USAPA guys.

This is economic. Period.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Its not political. Political is AWA guys denying USAPA guys.

This is economic. Period.

[L-16B]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

So, its your position that non-Union pilots should have unlimited access to Union negotiated benefits on other airlines?

The problem is not enough airline pilots, being basicly non-confrontational personality types, have the balls to tell someone to pound sand.

Can you imagine a non-Union electrician going into the IBEW hall and asking those guys for a ride to work because "hey, I'm an electrician and I'm just trying to feed my family."



What we tend to forget is we're just blue collar labor. And we have nothing to withold from our employers BUT our labor. As long as there is tangible proof for employers that there are plenty of pilots willing to work for less wages and fewer benefits, we will have ZERO legitimate bargaining power.

So let's take the guys who are showing managment they'll do our jobs for 40% less to their base airports.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

When it comes to jumpseating, absolutely!

[MQAAord]

Gah, this thread smells like two-week old fish already.


I'm gonna say this once, and once only. If this thread gets out of hand it will be locked INSTANTLY. Keep it classy & professional, personal attacks WILL be carded.

[GaTechKid]

Regrettably, if UAL does not fix the jumpseat software within thirty (30) days, UAX pilots will be left with no other choice but to deny all UAL pilots any requests for the jumpseat, regardless of aircraft tail-colors beginning 08/31/08.

If ya'll missed this little tidbit here, it means all UEX regional airlines would deny all UAL pilots on their flights, regardless if its operated as United, Delta, USAir, Continental, etc..

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by zmiller4

Signed, the pilots of:

Chautauqua Airlines




Shuttle America



Republic's JS committees were involved in this, but they apparently didn't sign.

Republic Airlines doesn't fly for United, I assume thats why they are not on there. Both Chautauqa and Shuttle do though, but they should have just put "Republic Airways" because we're all the same Union.

This jumpseat situation is complicated. Because if it weren't for Mainline, the Express pilots probably wouldn't have jobs. So in that sense, Mainline pilots should be priority even on Express flights because it was their flying farmed out to begin with. Its not their fault that the plane only has 50 or 70 seats.

The other is that the Express carriers need priority for getting their flights out on time, otherwise their Code-share partner could kick them to the curb for performance. So of course they want their pilots to have jumpseat priority so that the company can continue to do their job.

Its just a mess....hopefully it gets resolved quickly.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Airdale

The other is that the Express carriers need priority for getting their flights out on time, otherwise their Code-share partner could kick them to the curb for performance. So of course they want their pilots to have jumpseat priority so that the company can continue to do their job.

Its just a mess....hopefully it gets resolved quickly.

Explain this please.

[Kingairer]

I will not deny a UAL mainline jumpseater today or anytime there after.

[Baronman]

I feel for the UAX guys...especially those who are adversely affected by UALs computer system. Those guys are a minority though, and I think the majority are scared of repercussions and hence will not follow through with any action planned by the union.

United is playing hardball, they know they're disregarding the JS agreement and they're shrugging their shoulders. The problem starts with them, fix the computer and all this other garbage goes away.

Could you imagine if the situation was reversed? The problem would be solved immediately, and if it weren't, I could see similar threats being made.

But as I stated above, unless the problem directly affects the ca, I think most will look to avoid any confrontation.

So really, how can the uax pilots hold united to their end of the agreement? Or is it just not worth fighting for?