Serious question, why?

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by MQAAord

Some airlines will tack additional flying onto the end of your sequence, and require that you check your schedule within 15 minutes of block-in. When they do that, there's not much you can do...... Sick call, fatigue, or other "good" reason would be necessary to get out of that.

Bingo. We're required to "check out" at the end of our trip, and they can tack a crew message on that says you're being JM for a trip on XX. If it's at the beginning of your trip, you're really screwed b/c the computer won't let you check in until you acknowledge the schedule adjustment. There's a time frame they're allowed to do that (something like 36 hours or so). Outside of that time frame you can tell 'em to take a hike.

I'm still on reserve this month, and I've probably flown twice as much this month as last month, so either people stopped picking up open time at Pinnacle or there's just a ton of it. They tried to call me prior to the start of my reserve period to assign a trip. Too bad I don't answer my phone either before or after I'm on reserve....

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Bingo. We're required to "check out" at the end of our trip, and they can tack a crew message on that says you're being JM for a trip on XX. If it's at the beginning of your trip, you're really screwed b/c the computer won't let you check in until you acknowledge the schedule adjustment. There's a time frame they're allowed to do that (something like 36 hours or so). Outside of that time frame you can tell 'em to take a hike.

I'm still on reserve this month, and I've probably flown twice as much this month as last month, so either people stopped picking up open time at Pinnacle or there's just a ton of it. They tried to call me prior to the start of my reserve period to assign a trip. Too bad I don't answer my phone either before or after I'm on reserve....

My cousin was a LCA at 9E and one of his last days we were both commuting home on the same plane and he was talking about that. I was horrified by what your scheduling can do over there. I mean every regional is trying to screw you in the scheduling department, but that is absurd.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

They tried to call me prior to the start of my reserve period to assign a trip. Too bad I don't answer my phone either before or after I'm on reserve....

So you mean you didn't answer the phone and tell them that they interrupted your rest and that you will now be starting all over again?

Come on. . .you know that one by now.

[Qgar]

I refuse to "call out" after a trip. I check in via computer (which most of my coworkers think is "optional,") but that's IT. If they need to get me, they have a few ways to do it---they've done it before. (phone call to the cell or ACARS).

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

So you mean you didn't answer the phone and tell them that they interrupted your rest and that you will now be starting all over again?

Come on. . .you know that one by now.

I could be wrong, but I heard the FAA ruled that calling once during rest wasn't an interruption.

[surreal1221]

You are correct - and I'll just simply leave it at that.

Too many links to post, and not enough time to bother.

Or. . .you could follow 91.13(a). They call you during your rest period, you "can't" fall back asleep and you call them a few hours later to inform them that you were unable to return back to rest and you feel unable to perform any potential duties and do not want to violate 91.13(a).

Sec. 91.13(a) provides as follows: "No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner, so as to endanger the life or property of another." Both the flight crewmember and certificate holder would be in violation of section Sec. 91.13(a) if a flight crewmember flys when his lack of rest would endanger others. Furthermore, the flight crewmember need not actually endanger others for a violation of Sec. 91.13(a) to occur - a violation exists if the flight crewmember's fatigue subjects life or property to potential endangerment.

[CamYZ125]

They tack our damn JRA's on the release, so when the captain signs it, that's pretty much notification for anyone JRA'd on the release. Sucks. Other than that, I don't answer my phone when they call.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by WalterSobchak

My cousin was a LCA at 9E and one of his last days we were both commuting home on the same plane and he was talking about that. I was horrified by what your scheduling can do over there. I mean every regional is trying to screw you in the scheduling department, but that is absurd.

Totally rumot since no one has seen it, but from what I hear, the scheduling section of the new contract (which has already been TA'ed despite management's efforts to try to get it re-opened) is doing away with the "check out" for line holders. Reserves still need to check out. Hopefully, they'll get rid of the other major annoyance for reserves: they can hold you for an hour after your original release and have de-facto airport reserve. The catch is, anything they give you has to start within 3 hours of your block in time. So, you could be done at 7:30, but scheduling can say "Hey, we need you to sit tight until 8:30," call you at 8:29 and assign you a trip leaving at 10:30....and it would be legal.

And yeah, one call during the rest period isn't considered interrupting, but if you can't fall back asleep.....fatigue call.

[Baradium]

Originally Posted by slpilot

So if you werent a pilot, and their was extra shifts to pick up at work, but they were first come first serve, you wouldnt pick them up, just because somebody else doesnt have a job? I understand the need to help the overall pilot group, but you gotta eat.

If there were employees of my company on furlough.... EXACTLY, I would NOT work anything extra that I didn't have to.

That's what the scabs say... they had to eat. I won't accept that argument in that situation and I won't accept it in this one.

Originally Posted by slpilot

I agree with you, its just a hard situation to be in. Blame management

No, I blame people like YOU who try to justify it.

You are telling management "I'll cover this work left open because you took jobs from more people than than you should have."

There is NO excuse. I don't care WHAT bills you have, the other guy has bills too and is getting nothing and you are still working. Your few extra dollars a month is at the cost of his entire salary.

You shouldn't work an extra hour that you don't HAVE to (including don't answer your phone to be JM'd) while there is a SINGLE pilot on reserve at your company. If you need money, find a side job. Do odd jobs for neighbors. ANYTHING BUT WORK EXTRA.

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

How can I not "accept" a junior assignment without being insubordinate and then fired? When you have that figured out please gimmie a ring.

They are talking about if they call you. Don't answer your phone on your off time.

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Totally rumot since no one has seen it, but from what I hear, the scheduling section of the new contract (which has already been TA'ed despite management's efforts to try to get it re-opened) is doing away with the "check out" for line holders. Reserves still need to check out. Hopefully, they'll get rid of the other major annoyance for reserves: they can hold you for an hour after your original release and have de-facto airport reserve. The catch is, anything they give you has to start within 3 hours of your block in time. So, you could be done at 7:30, but scheduling can say "Hey, we need you to sit tight until 8:30," call you at 8:29 and assign you a trip leaving at 10:30....and it would be legal.

And yeah, one call during the rest period isn't considered interrupting, but if you can't fall back asleep.....fatigue call.

What? That's the craziest thing I've ever heard, there are airlines that require you to checkout?? That would suck especially on reserve. I don't think we even had that on the mesa contract, granted I worked for one of the subsidiaries.

[BobDDuck]

Umm... Most airlines require you to check out on reserve. I think we are supposed to check in and out even with a line, but I've done it MAYBE five times in the past three years.

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

How can I not "accept" a junior assignment without being insubordinate and then fired? When you have that figured out please gimmie a ring.

If its given to you during a time period where you have to pick up the phone from the company, well that sucks.

But if you accidentally pick up the phone when your off and its your company and they try to JR man you, if say your base is IAD, tell them you would be more than happy to help out. They will just have to positive space you from LAX or somewhere absurdly far away.

-Rob

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

If its given to you during a time period where you have to pick up the phone from the company, well that sucks.

But if you accidentally pick up the phone when your off and its your company and they try to JR man you, if say your base is IAD, tell them you would be more than happy to help out. They will just have to positive space you from LAX or somewhere absurdly far away.

-Rob

Or you just cracked a beer before you answered the phone. Or "Sure, I'd be happy to accept the assignment. Let's see, next flight for <insert hub here> leaves in 3 hours, and it's a 2 hour flight. Figure about 20 minutes for deplaning and another 10 to get from gate X to gate Y, so sure. I'll take the assignment. You'll just have to delay the departure 5 and a half hours." Odds are they'll say "Thanks, don't worry about it." If you DO happen to get called in for a chat with the base manager or CP, guess what? You didn't refuse it, so they can't technically hit you with a refusal.

[wheelsup]

I always answer my phone when scheduling calls, even on my off days. They pretty much only call to tell me I am off for OE or some other reason. They haven't once called to junior man me, however they really aren't familiar with what you are doing right then. As posted above, you could've just had some alcoholic beverages, be at the beach 4 hours from your house, etc., or doing something that makes it not very practical to get you to cover the flight.

Some guys who commute sometimes call up to be voluntarily JM'd, they get positive spaced to work and start working when they would be in their crashpad or hotel for 1.5x pay. Although that only really works when we are thinly staffed.

If they want to get a hold of you while at work they can, and you really can't do anything about it. So I decided long ago not to fight it, although it's certainly not the "cool" thing to do (answer your phone). It's funny, most guys will talk tough while in the crew room and then when scheduling calls they get all sappy and "yes m'am-ish".

[germb747]

I'm new to the 'commercial aviation' world, with a military background, and I've never been furloughed nor have I ever worked for a company with pilots on furlough.

With that said, my take on it is that it's morally wrong to work overtime with pilots sitting on furlough. The overtime belongs to the pilots who were told to take a hike by management. The availability of open time tells me that not enough crews are on the payroll. The only way to send a message to management is by impacting the bottom line, and if they have to cancel trips for crew unavailability, more people will get their jobs back.

[Hacker15e]

Originally Posted by joliet

There is an epidemic of new airline pilots with a me first attitude, who have no problems with throwing their brothers under the bus.

I think that's the same thing they were saying in the 60s...and the 70s....and the 80s....

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Hacker15e

I think that's the same thing they were saying in the 60s...and the 70s....and the 80s....

And or perhaps its just a mentality of the world.... Its all about me. Lets face it who here is not going to put themselves 1st? Honestly?

Anyways just thought I'd put it out there, we are lucky here in the 1st place. If it werent for people taking LOA's the furloughs could have easily been up in the 50's. For now I'll take 27 and see what happens. Right now there's quite a bit of open time and people are being Junior manned (via extensions) and TDY'd out of base. But this is only DAY 1 of furloughs and also the blend. We hopefully will see this happen for the whole month we might get a few back. But we will have to wait and see.