my rant...

[adreamer]

[Rant]

When I called ATC clearance this morning, center informed us that airport is blocked due to IFR departure. So we sat at run-up pads and waited. It turned out to be one airline crew who suppose to depart long time ago.

Center was too busy to cancel his clearance. so we sat there for 20 minutes for this flight to depart. 20 minutes may not be a lot. But it could mean diverting or get a chance to shoot approachs,

I thought it is common courtsey that you do NOT block the airport unless you are taxi out and ready for departure. I think it would be safe to say the following:

If you forgot un-controlled airport IFR procedures, please review FAR/AIM.

[End of Rant]

[SIUAv8r]

Originally Posted by adreamer

[Rant]

When I called ATC clearance this morning, center informed us that airport is blocked due to IFR departure. So we sat at run-up pads and waited. It turned out to be one airline crew who suppose to depart long time ago.

Center was too busy to cancel his clearance. so we sat there for 20 minutes for this flight to depart. 20 minutes may not be a lot. But it could mean diverting or get a chance to shoot approachs,

I thought it is common courtsey that you do NOT block the airport unless you are taxi out and ready for departure. I think it would be safe to say the following:

If you forgot un-controlled airport IFR procedures, please review FAR/AIM.

[End of Rant]

maybe they had a more pressing issue. maintenance, pax, etc...? Sounds like you were on the ground waiting, and not in the air, right? I don't know about you, but I'm paid by the minute.

[flyviper]

Originally Posted by SIUAv8r

maybe they had a more pressing issue. maintenance, pax, etc...? Sounds like you were on the ground waiting, and not in the air, right? I don't know about you, but I'm paid by the minute.

I hear this too often, sitting around 20mins on the ground burn a lot of fuel!!! Can't we conserve? I know we get pay sitting there but think about how much fuel we could save! I hope we realize why oil cost so much these days, don't waste any gas, lets try our best to lower demand.

[adreamer]

Sounds like you were on the ground waiting, and not in the air, right?

In regarding with that, I am also pay by the minutes if the actual flight time more than block time. If less than the block time, I get paid by whatever block time is.

All I am saying is this - If you are not ready to go at uncontrol field, please don't called for clearance and block the airport.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by adreamer

In regarding with that, I am also pay by the minutes if the actual flight time more than block time. If less than the block time, I get paid by whatever block time is.

All I am saying is this - If you are not ready to go at uncontrol field, please don't called for clearance and block the airport.

Agreed. Get your clearance at the end of the runway. If that's not possible for one reason or another and you have your clearance and can't go, be proactive and cancel it. Think about your IFR partners!

[ERfly]

What is wrong with a simple "Hold For Release"? I mean you can get your clearance at the gate, but get ATC issues you a "hold for release". You then call them #1 at the runway, and they release you into the system. You're not blocking whole airport at that point. Every time I departed an uncontrolled field, that's what they did. Happened all the time at AVL, LRD, MAF, LBB, etc.

[kellwolf]

Must do things differently at different ATCs. Every time I've gotten a clearance in the 121 world, I've gotten the clearance, then told to call when we're ready to go or "when #1 at the runway." If another crew is expecting that when they get clearance, they may not even KNOW they're blocking the airport.

As for sitting on the ground 20 minutes burning a lot of fuel.....if I know it's gonna be that long, the APU is gonna be the only thing running anyway. Only takes about 3-4 minutes to get both running and be ready to go.

[Seggy]

Not sure if it is in your ops spec, but if it is a nice day call dispatch get a composite flight plan amendment on your release, depart VFR and pick up your IFR in the air.

[EDUC8-or]

Originally Posted by ERfly

What is wrong with a simple "Hold For Release"? I mean you can get your clearance at the gate, but get ATC issues you a "hold for release". You then call them #1 at the runway, and they release you into the system. You're not blocking whole airport at that point. Every time I departed an uncontrolled field, that's what they did. Happened all the time at AVL, LRD, MAF, LBB, etc.

Actually, AVL is pretty notorious for NOT giving hold for release clearances. Also I was down in SAV way too early last week and the controller wouldn't give us a hold for release, he shut down the airport when we picked up our clearance. My FO called about 25 prior to engine start and we refused the clearance because he wouldn't give us the hold for release. I'm not sure if it's an ATC workload issue or what, but it sure would be nice if these airports had the same procedures.

[deadstick]

The common factor is Atlanta Center..."Hold for Release" does not compute.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by adreamer

[Rant]

When I called ATC clearance this morning, center informed us that airport is blocked due to IFR departure. So we sat at run-up pads and waited. It turned out to be one airline crew who suppose to depart long time ago.

Center was too busy to cancel his clearance. so we sat there for 20 minutes for this flight to depart. 20 minutes may not be a lot. But it could mean diverting or get a chance to shoot approachs,

I thought it is common courtsey that you do NOT block the airport unless you are taxi out and ready for departure. I think it would be safe to say the following:

If you forgot un-controlled airport IFR procedures, please review FAR/AIM.

[End of Rant]

If I were you I would have taxied to an intersection, back taxied and took off VFR then contacted center or approach in the air. You really sat behind an RJ for 20 minutes? Im assuming you were in a light GA aircraft if you were shooting practice approaches. Be proactive...

[adreamer]

Im assuming you were in a light GA aircraft if you were shooting practice approaches. Be proactive

Well, I am in "light" Aircraft - Dash 8 with 40 some passengers in the back.

Be Proactive - That particular flight crew got remind "proper IFR procedures at un-control field" lesson over unicom.

[KLB]

Originally Posted by Seggy

Not sure if it is in your ops spec, but if it is a nice day call dispatch get a composite flight plan amendment on your release, depart VFR and pick up your IFR in the air.

I didn't know that you 121 folk could do that. Thats how I would have done it. Actually this is quite a common practice for us.

[Seggy]

The Beech is a man's airplane and we can do a lot with it.

[BobDDuck]

We can do it in the RJ as well. I'd have to go look up the wording, but I think is says something like we can depart VFR as long as we can maintain VFR requirements for the airspace and have a reasonable assumption of picking up our IFR clearance within either 30 or 40 miles.

I've done it twice now, both times with out passengers on board and after waiting on hold with the "new and improved" national clearance number for about 15 minutes.

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

If I were you I would have taxied to an intersection, back taxied and took off VFR then contacted center or approach in the air. You really sat behind an RJ for 20 minutes? Im assuming you were in a light GA aircraft if you were shooting practice approaches. Be proactive...

You wouldve done that CHQ??

[ERfly]

Our Ops Specs at XJT do not allow us to depart VFR anymore. We must be on an IFR Flight Plan at all times.

They used to do it a ton with the turboprops. All of the old ATR guys can tell stories of going VFR up the river to get out of EWR.

[JaceTheAce]

Originally Posted by adreamer

[Rant]

When I called ATC clearance this morning, center informed us that airport is blocked due to IFR departure. So we sat at run-up pads and waited. It turned out to be one airline crew who suppose to depart long time ago.

Center was too busy to cancel his clearance. so we sat there for 20 minutes for this flight to depart. 20 minutes may not be a lot. But it could mean diverting or get a chance to shoot approachs,

I thought it is common courtsey that you do NOT block the airport unless you are taxi out and ready for departure. I think it would be safe to say the following:

If you forgot un-controlled airport IFR procedures, please review FAR/AIM.

[End of Rant]

I'd be happy to earn the extra 20 minutes in pay!

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

You wouldve done that CHQ??

For some reason I thought he was part 91 in a light GA type airplane waiting behind an RJ. After he said he was in a Dash then yeah that sucks. No I wouldn't have done it if it was a 121 op flight but if I was in a Cessna you bet I would have. My bad...

[NC_BE300]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

We can do it in the RJ as well. I'd have to go look up the wording, but I think is says something like we can depart VFR as long as we can maintain VFR requirements for the airspace and have a reasonable assumption of picking up our IFR clearance within either 30 or 40 miles.

I've done it twice now, both times with out passengers on board and after waiting on hold with the "new and improved" national clearance number for about 15 minutes.

Same here. We can blast off VFR-then pick up the IFR.

[adreamer]

I'd be happy to earn the extra 20 minutes in pay!

Well, we ended up with earning more than 90 minutes or so on the paid. That includes diverting, holding and try to find the gate at BWI.

Jace, that flighttime is usually under block time, even with 20 minutes of waiting.