New 175 Delivered to RAH. Why?

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

So take your own advice, look out for number one and stop worrying about other companies and their pilots. What we should be worrying about is US Air, they've been ranked as the first legacy to go out of business within the next year or so. Since both of our jobs hinge on that fact I'd say worry less about what the #### republic is doing and more about what US Air is doing. They just issued a press release stating how they can't park any of their old 737's because they lease 95% of their planes and their lessors won't let them return them.

I will not post again? Thus living in indy my whole life and reading the good ole IndyStar is a crime about local businesses. THUS the fact that I know family friends who work for RAH in the corp offices I think I take an intrest in things. However why panic about USairways? If somethings going to happen its going to happen period. I'm not one who's going to freak out about that. Thus we have to wait and see. All this getting bent out of shape about what might or might not happens gets ya no where. Again perhaps we should be posting more about CAL/UAL then Usairways.... Perhaps FORDS statement with UAL would be something you and others could concern yourself with. Regardless I again wont and refuse to sit back and get all worried. It gets you no where. Thus typing and putting things into a discussion has become a bad thing lately. If you dont want discussion then I guess dont read these types of threads?

[Seggy]

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Oh no you did not just say that.... watch out Steve for your back now! I've got your covered but you just open some worms!

And PSA should lose their -700's right?

Look all flying should be mainline. Regionals suck. Damn mainline for giving up scope for more money. What an industry.

Luckily- there are brilliant people at the regionals trying to make things better with ALPA's help.

Vote 2008 CJC

[SoCalAprch]

I think most have aspirations to move on to bigger and better flying in their futures, however a first year FO, even in a hiring market, has at least 5 or 6 years before you can really start thinking of the big major types. Thats if upgrades are quick and the majors are hiring. So currently who knows when the end is in sight. All you can do is goto work and make the best of it and try to improve yourself as a pilot.

I got hired when upgrades were 1.5 years now who the hell knows. All I know is that I have become comfortable knowing I may be at CHQ for 10 plus years. Would I rather be gone in half that time? Hell Yeah! But with the state of our beloved industry who knows where I will be in 2 months, 2 years, 2 decades. All I care at this point is that I am still on the payroll and I get to fly a plane for a living. All we can do is make the best of what we have in the present and keep pushing towards that goal out there in the future.

I didn't want to leave college, i went for 6 years and still have another 1.5 semesters I gotta figure out how to finish!

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

I think most have aspirations to move on to bigger and better flying in their futures, however a first year FO, even in a hiring market, has at least 5 or 6 years before you can really start thinking of the big major types. Thats if upgrades are quick and the majors are hiring. So currently who knows when the end is in sight. All you can do is goto work and make the best of it and try to improve yourself as a pilot.

I got hired when upgrades were 1.5 years now who the hell knows. All I know is that I have become comfortable knowing I may be at CHQ for 10 plus years. Would I rather be gone in half that time? Hell Yeah! But with the state of our beloved industry who knows where I will be in 2 months, 2 years, 2 decades. All I care at this point is that I am still on the payroll and I get to fly a plane for a living. All we can do is make the best of what we have in the present and keep pushing towards that goal out there in the future.

I didn't want to leave college, i went for 6 years and still have another 1.5 semesters I gotta figure out how to finish!

I just wanted to say, that this post is the best of 2008. Congrats! I go now.

[Dan208B]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I just wanted to say, that this post is the best of 2008. Congrats! I go now.

Second that...

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

I think most have aspirations to move on to bigger and better flying in their futures, however a first year FO, even in a hiring market, has at least 5 or 6 years before you can really start thinking of the big major types. Thats if upgrades are quick and the majors are hiring. So currently who knows when the end is in sight. All you can do is goto work and make the best of it and try to improve yourself as a pilot.

I got hired when upgrades were 1.5 years now who the hell knows. All I know is that I have become comfortable knowing I may be at CHQ for 10 plus years. Would I rather be gone in half that time? Hell Yeah! But with the state of our beloved industry who knows where I will be in 2 months, 2 years, 2 decades. All I care at this point is that I am still on the payroll and I get to fly a plane for a living. All we can do is make the best of what we have in the present and keep pushing towards that goal out there in the future.

I didn't want to leave college, i went for 6 years and still have another 1.5 semesters I gotta figure out how to finish!

I see what you're saying, but I'd take a short term furlough if it meant that I could get on a major seniority list faster. The way things are, I might be at Pinnacle for another 3-5 years. I see too many "Man, I'm just glad to have a JOB" people. Yeah, me, too. But do I wanna sacrifice my CAREER for a JOB? I didn't get into this to be a regional CA on the -200. That's what scoping out the "large regional jets" is doing. Bombardier is working on a CRJ that would seat as many people as a DC-9 or a 737-500. Should it be considered a "regional jet" just b/c it's made by Bombardier? That's how I look at the E175s and E190s. Some people say they're regional jets. Why? They LOOK like Airbuses, in some configs they're only a few seats shy of mainline aircraft and they've got better amenities than a lot of mainline aircraft. Why are they regional jets? Just b/c Embraer makes 'em doesn't mean they should be regional jets. I was glad to see US Airways taking a stand on the 190s and saying they should be mainline airplanes. Now, I have a feeling they might be sliding back to the regionals and there are people that are HAPPY about this.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

I see what you're saying, but I'd take a short term furlough if it meant that I could get on a major seniority list faster. The way things are, I might be at Pinnacle for another 3-5 years. I see too many "Man, I'm just glad to have a JOB" people. Yeah, me, too. But do I wanna sacrifice my CAREER for a JOB? I didn't get into this to be a regional CA on the -200. That's what scoping out the "large regional jets" is doing. Bombardier is working on a CRJ that would seat as many people as a DC-9 or a 737-500. Should it be considered a "regional jet" just b/c it's made by Bombardier? That's how I look at the E175s and E190s. Some people say they're regional jets. Why? They LOOK like Airbuses, in some configs they're only a few seats shy of mainline aircraft and they've got better amenities than a lot of mainline aircraft. Why are they regional jets? Just b/c Embraer makes 'em doesn't mean they should be regional jets. I was glad to see US Airways taking a stand on the 190s and saying they should be mainline airplanes. Now, I have a feeling they might be sliding back to the regionals and there are people that are HAPPY about this.

I completly agree with you. Id be happy to take a furlough as well but your scenario at this point is a dream. For us as 121 pilots to have any say in what should be considered "mainline" and "regional" we would need a national seniority list. Everyone knows that if for some reason comair, republic, pinnacle, etc... says they won't fly the 76 or 86 seat RJs because their pilot group won't allow it then someone else will pick up all that flying or the shadeball company will start a new one under a new name with a different pilot group to get around it.

My post wasn't about whats best for the whole profession but more about just trying to make the best of whats dealt to you. Because at this point we really have no power or say in anything. Once someone comes up with a way for a national seniority list or a way to get these back at mainline Im all ears but until then all you can do is try to make the best out of it. If they keep giving us 175s and pinnacle 900s then so be it. All we can do is fight for better pay and work rules until we can get hired and move onto bigger and better things. "Leave it in the same or better condition as you found it"

If mainline keeps giving them to regionals you may as well make the best of it because it may be a longer ride than we all expected.

This may not make much sense I had a couple tonight.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

I see what you're saying, but I'd take a short term furlough if it meant that I could get on a major seniority list faster. The way things are, I might be at Pinnacle for another 3-5 years. I see too many "Man, I'm just glad to have a JOB" people. Yeah, me, too. But do I wanna sacrifice my CAREER for a JOB? I didn't get into this to be a regional CA on the -200. That's what scoping out the "large regional jets" is doing. Bombardier is working on a CRJ that would seat as many people as a DC-9 or a 737-500. Should it be considered a "regional jet" just b/c it's made by Bombardier? That's how I look at the E175s and E190s. Some people say they're regional jets. Why? They LOOK like Airbuses, in some configs they're only a few seats shy of mainline aircraft and they've got better amenities than a lot of mainline aircraft. Why are they regional jets? Just b/c Embraer makes 'em doesn't mean they should be regional jets. I was glad to see US Airways taking a stand on the 190s and saying they should be mainline airplanes. Now, I have a feeling they might be sliding back to the regionals and there are people that are HAPPY about this.

THIS is the post of 2008.

[SoCalAprch]

Maybe every regional pilot should just strike on the same day and demand appropriate pay. That would solve it quickly. If we demanded higher "major like" pay then there would be no need for regionals and we would all be getting paid for what we are worth.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

That's how I look at the E175s and E190s. Some people say they're regional jets. Why? They LOOK like Airbuses, in some configs they're only a few seats shy of mainline aircraft and they've got better amenities than a lot of mainline aircraft. Why are they regional jets? Just b/c Embraer makes 'em doesn't mean they should be regional jets.

So whose fault is this. It certainly isn't yours or mine or any regional pilot.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I just wanted to say, that this post is the best of 2008. Congrats! I go now.

"Just when you think you're out, they pull you back in!"


Seriously, guys. I have no dog in this fight, but you RAH guys sure seem to dogpile meyers.

I read what he said about all regionals sucking as "move up the ladder, you're contract flying." I didn't read it as my regional is better than yours, and RAH sucks!

Geez.

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

"Just when you think you're out, they pull you back in!"


Seriously, guys. I have no dog in this fight, but you RAH guys sure seem to dogpile meyers.

I read what he said about all regionals sucking as "move up the ladder, you're contract flying." I didn't read it as my regional is better than yours, and RAH sucks!

Geez.

Max..if I had a dollar for every post/thread that he's used to bash our company or pilot group, I'd be rich!!

I'm over it though...he has opinions about our group, and that's fine...

Come on Max...hurry your a$$ up, the jungle bus awaits you..

[joliet]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Max..if I had a dollar for every post/thread that he's used to bash our company or pilot group, I'd be rich!!

I'm over it though...he has opinions about our group, and that's fine...

Come on Max...hurry your a$$ up, the jungle bus awaits you..

You are innocent of not doing exactly the same?

Bigger airplanes at regionals means less pay, for the same job. Where do you draw the line? CRJ-200? Q-400? CRJ-700? E-170?

Dash 8-300?

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Max..if I had a dollar for every post/thread that he's used to bash our company or pilot group, I'd be rich!!

I'm over it though...he has opinions about our group, and that's fine...

Come on Max...hurry your a$$ up, the jungle bus awaits you..

Ha! If I can get a loan in this economy, I'm so there man. I'm trying yo...gonna apply next month!

[Polar742]

Everytime there is a paradigm shift in the commuters, there is this same righteous "debate".

The truth of the matter is ALL commuters, regionals, feeders, or any other name you or I care to use, live off of the castoffs from the "code-share partners". The only way to tell if your commuter is going to be around in 5 or 10 years is to see if your boss is buying the "it" commuter ride.

Back in the day it was metros, beech 99s, Shorts, F27s and what not.

Then it was J31s, DO228s, Be1900, SAABS and ATRs (that sat up to what, 66?)

Then the "RJ revolution" came with the battle cry of ALL jets belong at mainline.

Then the Jumbo Shrimps and the super sewer tubes built by the Canucks. The natural deal was "everything greater than 50 seats at mainline!"

If your company doesn't buy the "it" plane, the company that does will be the next monster commuter. If no current company buys it, some whiz kid will. CHQ was almost out of business. Some non-airplane money nerds in CT bought 45 orders and 45 options of ERJs, then they bought the near-bankrupt CHQ, then bought BB.

Until there is a confluence of permanently reduced capacity probably created by re-regulation (which will wipe out the vast majority of pilot jobs) and, over time, reduced numbers of qualified pilots to fill those few jobs. That is the one way I can see of unions regaining enough strength to recapture scope. Then, and only then, can the outsourcing of flying will cease.

Until that time, there are only two ways I can see fit to deal with this. The first, which I don't recommend, because the only thing hurt is yourself and family, is falling on your sword, quitting your company anytime they fly an airplane that is outside your moral and ethical guidlines.

The second is to be an involved member of the pilot group. How do you do this? First, learn to be a professional airline pilot. Learn your company's procedures, and learn your airplane inside and out. Learn how to be a Captain in a 121 environment, regardless of what you think of your airplane, if you think you can learn it when you're "closer to upgrade", or what you think about your "third rate POS airline". Come to training events prepared, stay on top of your books. You are first and foremost a professional pilot. You can either be part of the cure or part of the problem.

Second, stay involved with what's up with the company and industry. Are the making money? Did they lose money? Was it an operational loss or due to a "one-time charge?" What's the next "cool" idea? Is it a gigantic TProp, or is it the "Holding Company" concept?

Third, and most importantly, be an involved union/pilot group member. Does that mean you HAVE to volunteer? No. At the bare minimum, make sure you're in good standing, read your CBA (especially before you call your reps), listen to VARS messages, make sure you READ items put out for a vote, and VOTE. You should volunteer for a comittee. All of us have diverse interests and things outside the cockpit. Sure the MEC chairman puts in 80 hours of work a week on those duties. Does the hotel committee members? Probably not. How about putting in 2 hours of work on a 4 day trip? That could help alot of committees just by cutting down on the busy work. Research for them. There are many, many ways to be involved, and help positively shape the pilot group. Lead by example, others WILL follow.

Fourth, if you do the above, this will be an automatic. Improve your lot. You're already flying the airplane like the professional that you are. You are knowledgeable about the industry. You are involved with your pilot group. Now your company has taken the next direction. You and your pilot group are all set. It's CBA time, and time to get the contract that the current equipment deserves. Sure there's a lag, unfortunately that's the way the game is played.

Like all things culture related, it only take a bit to wreck (say rapid expansion anyone?) but years to cultivate it.....

Have fun out there.

[inside0ut]

Polar, awesome post.

If we ever meet, I owe you a round.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

So whose fault is this. It certainly isn't yours or mine or any regional pilot.

Not looking to blame anyone, just stating my opinion. If anything it's a shared "fault" between regional and major guys. The major guys are the ones that said "we don't want 'em" and slowly watched their scope be eroded. The regional guys (myself included) are the ones that took the jobs. My major question is "When does it end?" Several years ago, a 100 seat airplane at a regional was unheard of. Now, Bombardier is making one, and you can bet your bottom dollar that it's probably gonna try to be shifted to who will fly it cheaper. The only question is will the scope hold where it is now or be eroded further. Stretch the CRJ or redesign the E175 much more, and you might as well be flying a DC-9 or 737.


Although, now it's looking like I might be here closer to 5-7 years if Delta gets their way now......

[surreal1221]

Delta has a 90 seat rate. . .which hopefully will be utilized if/when the overweight CRJ's are out.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Not looking to blame anyone, just stating my opinion. If anything it's a shared "fault" between regional and major guys. The major guys are the ones that said "we don't want 'em" and slowly watched their scope be eroded. The regional guys (myself included) are the ones that took the jobs. My major question is "When does it end?" Several years ago, a 100 seat airplane at a regional was unheard of. Now, Bombardier is making one, and you can bet your bottom dollar that it's probably gonna try to be shifted to who will fly it cheaper. The only question is will the scope hold where it is now or be eroded further. Stretch the CRJ or redesign the E175 much more, and you might as well be flying a DC-9 or 737.


Although, now it's looking like I might be here closer to 5-7 years if Delta gets their way now......

Sorry to hear about that Delta stuff going down over there, I wish all you PCL guys the best.

I don't know what to say. I agree with what you are saying but I think to change anything we have to stop treating this like a stepping stone to the majors. If we all demanded to be paid and treated similar to our mainline partners there would either be no real need for 90 seat regional jets or there would and our QOL would increase dramatically. Either way it won't change until we unite to try to make our places better now. A national seniority list or a major restructuring of ALPA is what needs to be done in my opinion.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Delta has a 90 seat rate. . .which hopefully will be utilized if/when the overweight CRJ's are out.

...you mean a 90 seat rate for Delta pilots, right, not feed. Right?

[Kingairer]

FBO or Part 141?

[Soul Brotha']

I once trained my pet monkey to walk my dog and feed the cat on Tuesday.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

Maybe every regional pilot should just strike on the same day and demand appropriate pay. That would solve it quickly. If we demanded higher "major like" pay then there would be no need for regionals and we would all be getting paid for what we are worth.

Damn railroad labor act!!!! You and many others know if we could strike without government punishment there'd have been many strikes that would have taken place by now. Its weird how 9E voted to and we know it will be a while before they do. Funny also how teachers who are out to teach the youth of tomorrow are able to strike more often then damn pilots? Weird how society works?

ps... is that new bird over in front of the hanger with a lack of any airline colors on it? Saw a bright and shiny one over there.... Looked pretty amazing and sparkle free. That'd be one hell of a ride to fly in a brand new baby! Remember bring the new ones back from the Cessna factory let alone a brand new jet. Be kind of cool.