Why all the hate from American Eagle?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

ALPA is working to put a end to the TSA MIA flying.

Which ALPA?

AE's MEC? Or ALPA National?

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by ljg

It all seems pretty petty looking in from the outside.

In a sense you are right but when you are close to losing your job you start to analyze things and try to place blame. The blame doesn't lie with the pilot but if anything the management.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Nothing personal against you, but why not? They're losing what, 400 pilots? XJT is losing 800 pilots, Mesa is losing 400 pilots, etc. etc.

And that's my point Chris: We (all of us in this industry) have bigger things to worry about other than the "Daddy, Johnny doesn't like me and made a mean face at me..." undertone that this thread has.

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Everyone is in bad shape, that doesn't mean you can go around calling other pilot groups "Scabs" when they're not even close to that. I know it's not people like you, but the silent majority needs to be known of this phenomenon so they can shut up the loud 10%.

I agree with you 100%.

But, I didn't see him say that the alleged Eagle crews said anything to him or called him or his co-workers "scabs" or any other name.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Which ALPA?

AE's MEC? Or ALPA National?

1.MIA Flying Transfer Grievance

This week, following an in-depth discussion of your MEC, a grievance was filed over the company’s violation of several of our scope provisions when it announced the transfer of our MIA operations to American Connection.

This transfer is the latest development in a series of events that began when American Eagle leased ten EMB-145s to Trans States Airlines in 2003 to enhance their STL operation. Now, it appears that those very same aircraft will be used to replace work currently being done by our pilots working under our Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Your MEC anticipates that this violation may be a sign of what’s to come if AMR divests Eagle. Therefore, ALPA’s general counsel, Cohen, Weiss and Simon, a New York labor law firm, will assist our legal staff in prosecuting this grievance as well as analyzing all scope concerns regarding the planned Eagle divestiture. Your MEC will keep you apprised of details as we move forward.

Looks like both.

[ready2fly]

Okay, I was going to stay away from the original question, but I'll wade in:

I, personally, have zero animosity towards TSA. AMR awarded them the flying - that was AMR's decision to make, so be it.

I don't have to like it...and to tell you the truth, AMR didn't ask me, so I truly don't believe they care what I think.

The ONLY real gripe I have with TSA - and it's a very petty gripe - is that I wish they'd take more pride in the appearance of their aircraft.

Every single one of them that I've seen are filthy (on the outside - never flown TSA) and have the main cabin door literally LINED with old security tape.

If they are going to "wear the colors" of AE, then my only wish is that they'd clean it up a tad.

Outside of that, I bear no grudge. When the announcement was made about TSA being awarded the MIA flying, everyone I was around was angry at AMR - not TSA.

.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

When the announcement was made about TSA being awarded the MIA flying, everyone I was around was angry at AMR - not TSA.

Every one should be mad at AMR and not the TSA pilots.

[BobDDuck]

Read that MEC Briefing again. Nowhere in there does it say anything about going after TSA for flying those planes. They are looking at the possibility that Eagle management is breaking the terms of scope by allowing TSA to fly those planes. The problem I see though is that Eagle management doesn't have any control of where the planes fly (that is up to AMR) so I can already see Eagle management claiming that the CBA between then and the Eagle ALPA doesn't have jurisdiction. What a mess.

Just remember, that ALPA can't sue ALPA. So despite CWS getting involved, if there is any legal action between Eagle and TSA, Eagle would have to retain 3rd party council and do it outside the bounds of ALPA.

[skinswin34]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Every one should be mad at AMR and not the TSA pilots.

Amen... Should the TSA guys, whom by the way are downgrading and possibly furloughing, not show up in MIA for the good of the industry? Or should they show up where they're scheduled to and carry on? I'm not seeing the scab correlation.

[madmax]

Oh for the love of all that is pure and holy, can't we just accept that we are all on the same team?! This is getting ridiculous, pilot group A hates pilot group B because some overpaid blowhard decided to shuffle the flying around. Pilots are just drivers, we all want to fly planes and make money, we all went a slightly different way about getting there.

This all just needs to stop.

[Seggy]

This has been going on for 80+ years.

[Firebird2XC]

Seggy's right. This has been going for 80+ years.

Ultimately, it comes down to too many people wanting something that there's not really enough of to go around. In the land of competition in business, that means everybody looks for a competitive edge.

Over time, there's been so many deals, re-deals, etc, that the water's become irreversibly muddied.

Ultimately, all of us as pilots are facing some very dark days ahead. Some of us may come out unscathed, some of us may even be driven from the profession by necessity.. or lack of optionis.

When the pilot shortage was on and everybody was flying, everybody was all about getting theirs, and good luck to everybody else! Now that the chips are down, we're turning on each other. We should all be standing our ground as pilots to prevent managers who reward themselves while the ship is sinking while they put US on the street.

I had alot of animosity towards my former employer (CJC) because I felt I got 'bait and switched', but ultimately I had only myself to blame for that. I went in blind, and believed what they told me. In business in the modern era, that's just stupid. You're not paid what you're worth, you're paid what you negotiate. Business managers all too rarely have questionable ethics, and their survival will come before yours EVERY time.

It's high time we started looking for solutions to prevent pilots winding up on the street every time the industry hiccups.

I think it's time pilots banded together, industry wide, and looking for legislative ways to protect labor-based industry.

Seriously now. We're reducing capacity? Why did we grow so fast in this industry? We glutted the market with so many seats that we can't fill them now, and now it's the labor taking it in the shorts, and not the managers that were too greedy to be prudent.

What we really need as pilots, industry wide, are changes made to labor law, the RLA, and other laws to prevent industry growth that cannot be supported. We have everything to gain by this.

Does anybody really think that some of the upper managers at airlines are going to feel this? Even if one of them ended up on the street, their seven figure salary probably has them well padded. What about you or I?

It's time for change. Banks, the stock market, all that stuff- it's regulated to prevent people from destabilizing it into collapse.

Shouldn't we ask for the same? It's the little people- US.. that are crushed when the pile falls down.

Time for change. It's time for UNITY among pilots to effect the REAL root cause of our suffering- greed and mismanagement at the corporate office.

[Foxcow]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

The thing is you couldn't do the flying without our planes?
You know the 16 Eagle planes flown on Eagle routes by TSA crews.

I am fully aware of that situation. But you have to realize that this deal was between AMR and TSA management. We had no say in the matter. Are we supposed to deny the trip if we see that its an ex-Eagle plane?

Originally Posted by ready2fly

The ONLY real gripe I have with TSA - and it's a very petty gripe - is that I wish they'd take more pride in the appearance of their aircraft.

Every single one of them that I've seen are filthy (on the outside - never flown TSA) and have the main cabin door literally LINED with old security tape.

If they are going to "wear the colors" of AE, then my only wish is that they'd clean it up a tad.

Outside of that, I bear no grudge. When the announcement was made about TSA being awarded the MIA flying, everyone I was around was angry at AMR - not TSA.

.

I agree 103.4% . The only time the things get cleaned is when they go in for heavy check and in the rain (Hulas car wash). It really is embarrassing to have such a dirty airplane.

However, I take pride in my personal appearance and do a good job of keeping the cockpit tidy because it reflects a professional attitude. Hell, when an FO shows up without a belt, I will them him up to the inflight supervisor to beg for a belt. If we have time of course.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Foxcow

I agree 103.4% . The only time the things get cleaned is when they go in for heavy check and in the rain (Hulas car wash). It really is embarrassing to have such a dirty airplane.

However, I take pride in my personal appearance and do a good job of keeping the cockpit tidy because it reflects a professional attitude. Hell, when an FO shows up without a belt, I will them him up to the inflight supervisor to beg for a belt. If we have time of course.

Good deal, bro! Fly safe and I'll see you out there! We generally overnight at DSM and park alongside your company's aircraft.

As for Eagle aircraft, don't get me wrong, they are, by no means, always spotless.....but well, you know where I was coming from so it's all good.