Trans State in trouble

[surreal1221]

22 Downgrades announced today

along with 70-80 furloughs

(or so says someone on a professional pilot forum located elsewhere)

Good luck guys/gals

[Polar742]

Sucks for more of our pilot brethern on the street. I drank some beer with them, and they, like all of us, are good folks trying to make a living best they can.

I remember when TSA had over 1200 pilots.

Don't worry about Hulas. He'll find some struggling manufacturer and buy airframes on the cheap.

Oh, and I heard he owns another airline...

You know airline business. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[JetsGoWhee]

Word from the horsies mouth is 80 f-words and 22 captain downgrades...

[meyers9163]

damn it! I have some good buddies over there I instructed with...

[ljg]

Down with the RJ. Get these Turbo props outta the desert statly.

[wheelsup]

Why are they furloughing? They were one of the cheapest operators. Are they losing flying? With whom?

[H46Bubba]

Thanks alot Hojetters!

[blee256]

Originally Posted by H46Bubba

Thanks alot Hojetters!

Is Gojets picking up the flying?

[BobDDuck]

I dunno if they are expanding, but they are hiring.

But I apparently don't know anything but what the coolaid tells me.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by H46Bubba

Thanks alot Hojetters!

Yeah, calling B.S. here--unless you can show that GoJet is stealing the flying.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by aloft

Yeah, calling B.S. here--unless you can show that GoJet is stealing the flying.

Okay, let's try this again.

You run an airline. You have a new contract with an airline that will require you to startup a new certificate due to scope issues.

Why don't you just operate it like RP/S5/CQ? Why do you opt, instead, to have a SEPARATE pilot group, if the reasoning isn't "to get around the pilot contract"...

Remember, TSH is a privately held company so there aren't any documents that are required to be put out. It's because of this that the veil of secrecy remains... if they were publicly traded, it'd be transparent.

[BobDDuck]

Gojet is owned by TSAH
TSA is owned by TSAH.

TSAH uses the same management and infrastructure for both.

TSA is furloughing and GoJet isn't.

The issue seems pretty clear to me, even if GoJet isn't growing.

[Chris_Ford]

Which brings up something.

In the proposed SKW/XJT purchase, XJT would furlough 700-800.
In the mean time they'll be hiring onto the Brasilia and EMB-145 for SKW.

Will these pilots be treated the same as GoJet pilots? I say they ought to.

[aloft]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Okay, let's try this again.

You run an airline. You have a new contract with an airline that will require you to startup a new certificate due to scope issues.

Why don't you just operate it like RP/S5/CQ? Why do you opt, instead, to have a SEPARATE pilot group, if the reasoning isn't "to get around the pilot contract"...

Uh, because your pilots refuse to negotiate in good faith? Holas tried to go the RP/S5/CQ route, but the TSA pilots shut him down. At some point you cut your losses and say "you guys had your chance...5 of them, in fact."

I can't always automatically side with the pilots; some people are just hell-bent on their own destruction (see JTrain's sig), then act surprised when it happens.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by aloft

Uh, because your pilots refuse to negotiate in good faith? Holas tried to go the RP/S5/CQ route, but the TSA pilots shut him down. At some point you cut your losses and say "you guys had your chance...5 of them, in fact."

I can't always automatically side with the pilots; some people are just hell-bent on their own destruction (see JTrain's sig), then act surprised when it happens.

Apparently I dont know the whole story. What was Hulas offering when the pilots shot him down 5 times?

[jtrain609]

Ain't gonna be no surprise if Skywest doesn't negotiate in good faith and then the ExpressJet pilots STFD.

Did you even read the proposal from Skywest? Further, do you remember what was offered to the TSA pilots when GoJets was formed?

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Will these pilots be treated the same as GoJet pilots? I say they ought to.

In a way I kind of agree. SkyWest Inc. flying should all be on one list. Hell if the XJT pilots wanted to be spiteful they could always take a 50% paycut and then "take" the SkyWest flying. Wouldn't that be ironic.

I hate the regionals.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by aloft

Uh, because your pilots refuse to negotiate in good faith? Holas tried to go the RP/S5/CQ route, but the TSA pilots shut him down. At some point you cut your losses and say "you guys had your chance...5 of them, in fact."

I can't always automatically side with the pilots; some people are just hell-bent on their own destruction (see JTrain's sig), then act surprised when it happens.

Do you know what the offers were? They were insults. It was Hulas who never negotiated in good faith. He wanted 50 seat rates to fly the 70 seaters. The offer never increased after the "5" times you quote. This is not conjecture, this is fact from a member of the TSA negotiating committee.

However, you seem to use management conjecture "They rejected the contract, they weren't negotiating in good faith!" to satisfy your portion of the equation, but then reject it when reasonable conclusions are drawn on the pilot side.

Please do go work for GoJets. Make as many excuses as you want, but the fact remains that GoJet pilots are the scum of the industry. You can say it's not merited, but the majority of pilots familiar with the situation will disagree. Them's the breaks.

In the mean time, I'd suggest you just keep worrying about your Cessna and let the big boys handle their own problems.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

In a way I kind of agree. SkyWest Inc. flying should all be on one list. Hell if the XJT pilots wanted to be spiteful they could always take a 50% paycut and then "take" the SkyWest flying. Wouldn't that be ironic.

I hate the regionals.

Pilots are our own worst enemy. Something about an abundance of type-A's, jet fuel and snack mix make a nasty combination.

Question is, what do we do? What's the first salvo?

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Pilots are our own worst enemy. Something about an abundance of type-A's, jet fuel and snack mix make a nasty combination.

Question is, what do we do? What's the first salvo?

There is no first salvo, the career's gone. Looking up from the bottom, there's no top worth climbing to anymore with this job unless you simply love hotel beds, reduced rest overnights and heart attacks from too many beer and chicken wings.

Look at every carrier that has alright pay and good work rules; they get shut down. Look at the carriers that have crappy work rules; they thrive. It happens at the mainline and regional level.

[777forever]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

There is no first salvo, the career's gone. Looking up from the bottom, there's no top worth climbing to anymore with this job unless you simply love hotel beds, reduced rest overnights and heart attacks from too many beer and chicken wings.

Look at every carrier that has alright pay and good work rules; they get shut down. Look at the carriers that have crappy work rules; they thrive. It happens at the mainline and regional level.

Eh...Mesa and TSA have crappy work rules and they're not thriving. YMMV. To me the top is well worth the journey. I don't think our generation have it that bad. IMO I think we have it better than the guys at the top had it at this point in there career.

10 years ago I probably would still be looking for the scarce 7.00/hr flight instructor job instead of sitting in my own home playing video games and building seniority on reserve.

Hotel beds? Bid daytrips when you're senior enough. Reduced rest overnights? Thats happens what when you're junior. Heart attacks? Bring your own food on trips and hit the gym for goodness sakes. Is XJT doing this to ya too? This sounds familiar to your AMF rants before you left.

I dunno, maybe I just look on the bright side too much, but I have not had the same problems during my short airline career so far. Moving my bowl of cheerios out of the way....

[Foxcow]

20 or so downgrades go into effect next month according to the bid packet. We had a good number of guys from the training center come back to the line as well. So far, there hasn't any announcement of furloughs.

[JetsGoWhee]

Memo from the big man Leach...

No mention of staffing cuts however looks like a reduction in flying.

American side:Already begun the reduction between MEM JAX and IAD as well as cut off DEN entirely. Starting 1 July MEM service is discontinued entirely and lose 1 roundtrip to IAD.

Airways: All PVD turns are gone and EWR turns gone by 1 July.

Hope to have all aircraft back in service by Spring 2009


Strap in...

[Aeroman]

Anyone know how the regular job market is in STL? I should be fine on the list but am looking to get out...

[WacoFan]

I did hear that the reason GoJet is still hiring is because they have massive turnover - not sure if that is true or not.

Sad days - good luck to the TSA guys.