Mesa pilots get WARN letter

[bike21]

Surprised this isn't posted yet. Apparently the 400 most junior Mesa pilots got a WARN letter today.

Here is what a WARN letter is.

Bummer. This is certainly going to be an interesting year for all of us in the industry. I have no further information so I can't expand further on this.

Anyone have any more details? Good luck to us all.

[surreal1221]

Was this to all Mesa pilots? Or just those who are doing the Freedom flying?

Hearing conflicting things from a few forums. One says Freedom's guys got it, and the other (this one ) is indicating that ALL Mesa pilots received it.

Just wanting some clarification.

[inside0ut]

Holy crap. There are only like 1450 pilots there. That would take them to a thousand. When I got hired there begining of last year, I was 1890 on the list....with a bunch behind me. Man, how things change.

Good luck, guys.

[bike21]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Was this to all Mesa pilots? Or just those who are doing the Freedom flying?

Hearing conflicting things from a few forums. One says Freedom's guys got it, and the other (this one ) is indicating that ALL Mesa pilots received it.

Just wanting some clarification.

Me too. I was hesitant to post this without more info, but wanted to know more info myself. Apparently this '400 most junior' info came from someone on the MEC. Although, this is second hand so take it with a grain of salt.

I will await for some Mesa guys to chime in before I go further. Good luck again.

[dvtpilot]

Yep. Its true. I got one, missed the cutoff by ~75 numbers or so....

As for the 400 number, thats what they are telling me too, so I'm assuming its a generally correct number. The letter applied to all the junior folks off of the Global List, not just freedom guys.

So with that...........I'm setting up interviews this week.

[kellwolf]

I was under the impression that Mesa/Freedom was the same seniority list just different certs. So, I would assume that that 400 might be a mix of Mesa/Freedom.

[meritflyer]

Unfortunately I think this isn't the end of the furloughs to come.

[dvtpilot]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

I was under the impression that Mesa/Freedom was the same seniority list just different certs. So, I would assume that that 400 might be a mix of Mesa/Freedom.

You are correct sir.

[meyers9163]

wow.... best of luck to all. I dont know what else to say really but we need to keep on the look out for each other. Fact of the matter started with all the airlines going out, Skyway, Skybus, Aloha, EOS to name a few. To xjet with CLOA and possible furloughs, to PSA with CLOA,to now this. Anyone who is thinking about gaining out of any of this should re-examine things (i know there are a few out there at a couple of companies). Never know when something could and is going to happen.

[meritflyer]

Quit drinking and posting. You make this much sense ----> 0

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

Quit drinking and posting. You make this much sense ----> 0

[CamYZ125]

So, we're still short staffed in the CRJ side... yet were going to furlough CRJ pilots? Someone tell me how that makes sense. I know that the Freedom ERJ guys (and now the Air Middy guys too) are senior to a lot of us on the CRJ, but it's going to take months to retrain all those on the CRJ...

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by CamYZ125

So, we're still short staffed in the CRJ side... yet were going to furlough CRJ pilots? Someone tell me how that makes sense. I know that the Freedom ERJ guys (and now the Air Middy guys too) are senior to a lot of us on the CRJ, but it's going to take months to retrain all those on the CRJ...

Yeah, but furloughing out of seniority is against the contract, I'm guessing. I'm sure JO would love to furlough the senior (therefore more expensive) guys and save the money on training costs to boot.

[dvtpilot]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Yeah, but furloughing out of seniority is against the contract, I'm guessing. I'm sure JO would love to furlough the senior (therefore more expensive) guys and save the money on training costs to boot.

Exactly. And I believe he was already burned by doing that a few years ago, but I dont remember the exact circumstances or anything. Time to polish that resume buddy!

[CamYZ125]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Yeah, but furloughing out of seniority is against the contract, I'm guessing. I'm sure JO would love to furlough the senior (therefore more expensive) guys and save the money on training costs to boot.

Yeah, I know it's against the contract.. it's against a lot of things in my opinion..

And I agree with you, it'd be easiest/most cost effective to furlough the ERJ (and now Beech) guys, and keep the CRJ guys onboard. Get rid of those senior guys, and not have the cost of retraining them all on the CRJ. But I agree, it's not the right thing to do.


Say they started retraining ERJ and Beech guys now on the CRJ- they couldn't get a good group of them through for at LEAST two months. So why would they furlough ANY CRJ pilots till they can at least replace them, and get the staffing levels higher with the more senior ERJ/Beech guys.

[surreal1221]

Oh I'm sorry. . .it's more costly for the company to furlough the bottom portion and then have to retrain the top portion of that list?

Sorry guys. . .but that's a seniority system. I'll take the bad qualities with the good.

I'm really not too interested in what is most cost effective to a company in regards to the workgroup. Pay us well, and abide by our contract. Not too much to ask.

[kellwolf]

I think what he's saying is it doesn't make much sense to furlogh CRJ guys when their replacements aren't trained yet, which I can kinda see.

My bet is you'll see waves of furloughs. The letter (from what I read of the legalise) is required to give you 60 days notice of impending layoffs. The actual layoffs could be past 60 days, though.

[SpiraMirabilis]

They just hired 40 new FOs this month in the surge and the Dash too.

[inside0ut]

The email that they sent to the AirMidwest guys said so sorry, oh and here serves notice of probable furloughs. What a nice thing to get in the old inbox.

[CamYZ125]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Oh I'm sorry. . .it's more costly for the company to furlough the bottom portion and then have to retrain the top portion of that list?

Sorry guys. . .but that's a seniority system. I'll take the bad qualities with the good.

I'm really not too interested in what is most cost effective to a company in regards to the workgroup. Pay us well, and abide by our contract. Not too much to ask.

What I'm saying is what I'm sure JO would like to do is just furlough the ERJ and Beech guys out of seniority... which I don't agree with at all. It'd be quite a bit more expensive to furlough already trained pilots, and then foot the bill to retrain other pilots on the aircraft that you just furloughed pilots from! Which is how it should work, given the current seniority system.. inefficient? Yeah. Costly? Yeah. Fair? More-so.

If a senior-to-me guy on the ERJ or 1900 gets furloughed and I don't, then I will feel bad. Sure, I don't want to be furloughed.. but that's the way this seniority system works, and that would be unfair to them.

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by CamYZ125

What I'm saying is what I'm sure JO would like to do is just furlough the ERJ and Beech guys out of seniority... which I don't agree with at all. It'd be quite a bit more expensive to furlough already trained pilots, and then foot the bill to retrain other pilots on the aircraft that you just furloughed pilots from! Which is how it should work, given the current seniority system.. inefficient? Yeah. Costly? Yeah. Fair? More-so.

If a senior-to-me guy on the ERJ or 1900 gets furloughed and I don't, then I will feel bad. Sure, I don't want to be furloughed.. but that's the way this seniority system works, and that would be unfair to them.

Oh padawan you have much to learn about JO. Everything he does is irrational. He doesn't care about the cost of re-training or training new pilots. Look at every single position within the company. There aren't many employees that have been there for more than 7 years, other than the senior pilots and mechanics who don't want to leave. I would say that Mesa has one of the highest turnover rates in the regional or matter of fact the entire airline industry! Mesa has spent quite a pretty penny on it constantly revolving manpower door. He's run a once up and coming airline into a graveyard spiral. He knows the end is near. He knows Delta is going to win in court in the following weeks hence the WARN letters. Oh and UAL is already going over RFPs for replacements for the UAL flying. As soon as the RFP's are awarded, Mesa's toast. The MAG ship is sinking and JO is already manning the life boat to escape. I suggest you follow the trail of rats and start swimming away as fast as you can!

[Bog]

The furloughs after 9/11 were done IN seniority order. That's one of the very few times that he did "the right thing."

Watch for the 1900 and ERJ crews to be furloughed out of seniority. The union will grieve it, and OJ will tell the judge that the cost to retrain all those crews, along with the time needed, would force the company to shut down, therefore he "HAD" to do it out of seniority.

Give it another year at the most. This is just the beginning of a big fall for MAG. OJ made his bed, now he's sleeping in it.

[surreal1221]

Hope guys are already seeking other employment then.

Otherwise they really have no one to blame but themselves when the doors shut for the last time. Plus, no one is really going to be willing to offer much assistance to them if they've been part of the problem all these years.

Get out while you can, get the help you can now to find employment before it's too late.

[jtrain609]

Mesa PILOTS are not the problem, Josh. I'd recommend you check that attitude of yours, and quickly at that.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Hope guys are already seeking other employment then.

Otherwise they really have no one to blame but themselves when the doors shut for the last time. Plus, no one is really going to be willing to offer much assistance to them if they've been part of the problem all these years.

Get out while you can, get the help you can now to find employment before it's too late.

From that point of view every regional pilot is part of the problem. Sorry but you aren't improving the industry by working at ASA. I don't think your hurting the industry either as I don't think Mesa, Skywest, Colgan, ExpressJet, and every other commuter.