Skywest/union

[gtpilot]

Didn't feel this discussion was helping on the X-jet thread.

Originally Posted by PCL_128

They get whatever the mormon masters tell them they'll get. Jerry will make whatever deal is in his own best interest, regardless of what it will do to any employee groups. With no contract to hold him to anything, he can and will do whatever he pleases.

Two problems with this - #1 the name calling (thought mild) doesn't help convince anyone. #2 when has Jerry screwed any of the employee groups at Skywest?

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Leech..???

I'm hoping my company will leech off of SKW and offer bonuses, stock options and on-time bonuses...

Mine has! Very nice!

As much as I appreciate ALPA's work on our contract, this is one perk they had nothing to do with.

[Nick]

I don't think the name calling helps win an argument either.

That said, beneath the name calling is a valid point. No representation at an airline results in...no representation.

Just because someone running the show hasn't screwed over a group of employees yet doesn't mean they won't in the future. Not to mention the fact that the one running the show could decide to quit or could kick the bucket and then all of the predicability that they may have had is gone in an instant.

Or in your example with Jerry and SkyWest, what if UAL and Midwest went out of business next month. Suddenly, a leader who was friendly while the sun was shining may not be able to be Mr. Nice Guy any longer if a company finds themselves in a tough spot.

[MQAAord]

Moderator Comment

This discussion will not resort to name-calling, mudslinging or using terms like "psudo-scab" or "proto-scab". Understand?

Make arguments using logic and reasoning, and others will be MUCH more inclined to listen to what you have to say.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Nick

Or in your example with Jerry and SkyWest, what if UAL and Midwest went out of business next month. Suddenly, a leader who was friendly while the sun was shining may not be able to be Mr. Nice Guy any longer if a company finds themselves in a tough spot.

Thus SKW would be in a bad situation....

[bike21]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Thus SKW would be in a bad situation....

Does that smiley mean you wish us SKW folks bad luck? I hope not, because if I remember your mentor and good friend is a very senior check airman here.

I will not participate in the mud slinging around here, but again I will reiterate that I sincerely wish things work out for the XJT folks. We pilots do not hold the crystal ball when we choose which company to go to. No one should wish anyone any ill will when their company is in trouble. Do not let a particular SKW pilot here, represent the rest of us. I assure his views are not shared among the majority of us.

[stuckingfk]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Thus SKW would be in a bad situation....

That seems to make you happy. Kind of sad.

The majority of SkyWest pilots don't want any pilots to lose their jobs. You seem to hope OO pilots do their lose jobs.

Why so hostile? There are many things that could be said bad about the company you work for.

One thing is for certain, Xjet provides a TOP NOTCH operation. It's an all around great operation. But when a company is bidding for a job, they don't always go for the most qualified. They find a balance between quality and cost. This happens in every industry out there. Get over it.

Regional pilots shouldn't be called regional pilots either. They're contract workers doing labor subject to advantages/disadvantages of being in the contract world. CAL/DAL/UAL all have shareholders to answer too. They're always cutting costs and finding ways to make the people that keep them in business happy.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by bike21

Does that smiley mean you wish us SKW folks bad luck? I hope not, because if I remember your mentor and good friend is a very senior check airman here.

I will not participate in the mud slinging around here, but again I will reiterate that I sincerely wish things work out for the XJT folks. We pilots do not hold the crystal ball when we choose which company to go to. No one should wish anyone any ill will when their company is in trouble. Do not let a particular SKW pilot here, represent the rest of us. I assure his views are not shared among the majority of us.

By no means... I was just saying if one of those did go under they would indeed be in a bad situation, as if the previous poster was pointing out a very OBVIOUS issue....

And yes you are right, my very dear friend/mentour etc is pretty much on the very top of your over all seniority. We've had multiple talks about things at SKW. By no means, thus also why I was surprised by the attitude of some on this forum of your pilot group who seem ok with the xjet guys being let go. None of the guys I know at SKW would ever say such a thing. Yet if the purchase were to indeed go through I'd hope it'd be an over all system intergration and those at the bottom if anyone would have to go thus would. Not only xjet guys....

[deadstick]

Imagine an airport served by 4 daily flights by each United Express, Delta Connection, USAirways Express, and NWAirlink. 16 aircraft visit said airport in a day. Now merger mania hits and you now have UnitedAirways and Norelta. Now only 8-10 aircraft have to visit that airport. There is the capacity reduction everybody has been talking about. That's a ton of iron in the desert, and a bunch or crews on the street.

If you don't fly a Boeing or Airbus (or the 190 for US or JB), best of luck. And don't bash our brothers and sisters at other carriers. You never know when winds will shift in this industry.

[bike21]

Very well then, just wondering 'cause it kind of came off that way.

I certainly agree that a real CBA would be nice in the event of unforeseen circumstances or bad relations. I respectfully disagree about the integration issue however. If Inc. can run all three companies separately & successfully then so be it. Integrating all 3 could be a mess methinks. However, if it all goes through and ASA & XJT file a single carrier petition, then so be it. As PCL_128 said, it would make one giant unionized company.

I don't want anyone to go and I mostly agree with your sentiment about if anyone goes it should be shared. However that isn't how reality and the business world work for better or for worse. At the same time is hard to see the 'purchasing' company's employees taking a hit. It is the personal dichotomy of the uber-pro labor bike21 and the rational business owning entrepreneur bike21. Uggh. But I digress.

What else to say? I believe the vast majority of SKW pilots realize it could be us tomorrow on the chopping block and are counting our lucky stars for now. Hopefully karma will come around and help XJT out since they are a good pilot group and management team. I would certainly welcome such a positive culture into the SKW family if it comes down to it. Until then, I will keep flying the line and hope for the best for all parties involved in this strange business we are in.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by bike21

Very well then, just wondering 'cause it kind of came off that way.

I certainly agree that a real CBA would be nice in the event of unforeseen circumstances or bad relations. I respectfully disagree about the integration issue however. If Inc. can run all three companies separately & successfully then so be it. Integrating all 3 could be a mess methinks. However, if it all goes through and ASA & XJT file a single carrier petition, then so be it. As PCL_128 said, it would make one giant unionized company.

I don't want anyone to go and I mostly agree with your sentiment about if anyone goes it should be shared. However that isn't how reality and the business world work for better or for worse. At the same time is hard to see the 'purchasing' company's employees taking a hit. It is the personal dichotomy of the uber-pro labor bike21 and the rational business owning entrepreneur bike21. Uggh. But I digress.

What else to say? I believe the vast majority of SKW pilots realize it could be us tomorrow on the chopping block and are counting our lucky stars for now. Hopefully karma will come around and help XJT out since they are a good pilot group and management team. I would certainly welcome such a positive culture into the SKW family if it comes down to it. Until then, I will keep flying the line and hope for the best for all parties involved in this strange business we are in.

Well said!

[jtrain609]

And here's the difference between Skywest and ExpressJet: the ExpressJet pilots will get a say in what happens to THEIR company, that they have their lives invested in.

You could say that it's simply about the stock holders, but the CBA that ExpressJet has negotiated with The Company proves otherwise. The scope clause, in a way, provides a bit of ownership of the company to the pilots. And why shouldn't it? Pilots are married to their companies, for better or worse, with almost zero control over what happens. So now we have a situation where the ExpressJet pilots are going to take hold of their company and their careers and have a say with this.

Skywest wants ExpressJet? That's great! It won't go for free, nothing in the world ever comes for free, and we're not just talking about dollars here. This deal WILL NOT go through without the ExpressJet pilot group signing off on it, and again looking at my signature you can tell where I stand with the current Skywest proposal. To say it's insulting is an understatement, and I'd rather burn one or both companies to the ground than accept this insulting offer. It's simply below me as a professional.

And it's nothing personal, just business. ExpressJet hires me to do a job, and I am in turn entering into a business contract for them to pay me, provide me benefits and most importantly, uphold the contract that we both signed. Nobody's going to violate that contract without my input, even if it is only 1/2882 of a say.

Nick check your PM's.

[Clocks]

My guess on whatever deal (or lack thereof) SKYW offers...

1. Lot's of talk about how everyone will vote no.
2. Vast majority of those who wont get furloughed votes yes (and 250 of those who get furloughed can't vote anyways).

At the end of the day people with families, mortgages, and student loans will realize that pilot unity is nice to talk about, but it doesn't pay the bills. No pilot group is going to vote themselves out of a job.

[surreal1221]

Fences anyone?

[jtrain609]

Skywest won't let the lists get integrated.

[surreal1221]

Deal stopper then. . .

It'd be great to hear what ASA ALPA is saying about this whole deal, but of course - the next LEC meeting isn't but for another 3 months, and our MEC won't meet again until the Fall.

No information/opinions coming through in any of our connection updates. Kind of disappointing to be honest.

[gtpilot]

I've been curious about our MEC's relative silence as well - not sure what to think about merging the alpa groups within Skywest. Selfishly, I wouldn't want to be at the bottom of that list.

[jtrain609]

Let me make this clear guys.

The.
Lists.
Will.
Not.
Be.
Merged.
Stop.
Talking.
About.
It.
Because.
Skywest.
Has.
Already.
Said.
It's.
Out.
Of.
The.
Question.

Can I make it any more clear? There will be no pref hiring and no list merger.

[meyers9163]

Needless to say we have a while to wait and see what happens. I guess it is just a matter of time and we all will have more of a clear picture as to what will happen.

[moose]

There WILL be preferential hiring. SkyWest management has made it clear that when we get furloughed they will throw preferential hiring our way to start as first year fo's doing the same exact job for the same company we were just furloughed from. Sounds fair to me. Ofcourse none of this will be in ink but hey... thats a hint of sarcasm you sense

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by moose

There WILL be preferential hiring. SkyWest management has made it clear that when we get furloughed they will throw preferential hiring our way to start as first year fo's doing the same exact job for the same company we were just furloughed from. Sounds fair to me. Ofcourse none of this will be in ink but hey... thats a hint of sarcasm you sense

I'd highly recommend you call your LEC reps and verify that.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

...in both this thread and the now closed one. XJT has been referred to as a bad company.

One need not be an Eloi or a Morlock to remember back to 04 & 05 when they were the place to be, the IT regional.

So, I find it confusing to hear XJT continually referred to as a bad company. This industry is cyclical. The "it" airline today could be tomorrows loser.

I have no dog in this fight at all, but lets just learn from history (for all the SKYW peeps) who seem to think that their company is impervious to an industry wide shake up, and want to call XJT a "bad company".

Oil at $126 bb is a game changer, one that if long term even the great SKYW might not be able to weather.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by moose

There WILL be preferential hiring. SkyWest management has made it clear that when we get furloughed they will throw preferential hiring our way to start as first year fo's doing the same exact job for the same company we were just furloughed from. Sounds fair to me. Ofcourse none of this will be in ink but hey... thats a hint of sarcasm you sense

Ah ok some sarcasm I'm like wtf.... Why even furlough then ya know? Makes no sense to me! Matter of saving money and starting them all over at the bottom perhaps?

[Lee D]

None of the pilots that I work with want XJT to go out of business. I have never overheard anyone wishing that either. People I flew with, former friends and instructors are there.

No one here gives each other high fives in the crew room when we hear about a potential merger etc. Naturally everyone is curious to see how such things would change their lives. Personally I suspect IF something happened it would go much like the ASA deal went.

Like Max said, this industry is cyclical and the golden child airline of today may be the red headed step child a few years down the road. Wishing unemployment on anyone is BAD KARMA or whatever you want to call it.

[moose]

It's late so this will make absolutely no sense but majority of the folks I fly with seem to view this as a hostile take over and not a merger. The offer that was presented to us is a joke and it aims to destroy the contract and quality of life that a lot of pilots have worked hard for. It craps all over the contract and quality of life that most if not all other "regional" airlines wish they enjoyed. I know I'm biased... tired and a little buzzed. G'night!

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Needless to say we have a while to wait and see what happens. I guess it is just a matter of time and we all will have more of a clear picture as to what will happen.

I've still been waiting to get a clear picture of ANYTHING in the airline business and it's put bread in the toaster for the last 13 or so years.