Q400 and PDT

[RightSeatGirl]

Most if not just about all of the 50 seat CRJ's are gonna be parked very soon.....So we shall indeed see what transpires among the regionals.

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by RightSeatGirl

Most if not just about all of the 50 seat CRJ's are gonna be parked very soon.....So we shall indeed see what transpires among the regionals.

And what's your source on this? I hope it's better than the income tax source.

[RightSeatGirl]

There are so many different ways to tell you bugger off I find myself unable to decide the best way to do it.....Ahhh yes. There it is....ignore list...goodbye!

Ahhhhh..much nicer forum now.

[Chris_Ford]

I'll take that as a "I have no source and just like to say things for the hell of it"

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

I'll take that as a "I have no source and just like to say things for the hell of it"

I can't help myself.

[RightSeatGirl]

So you gonna follow Ford all over the forum and quote everything he posts...Very uncool to perpetuate someone else's conflict that you have nothing to do with...

[Kristie]

exactly.....you're really not playing nicely Gonzo....let's not have that continue mmmkay?!

[SmitteyB]

While I agree with Ford- this is typical Gonzo. (edit)

With that being said- It would cost the company more in revenue to park the 50 seaters than it would operating them with a fuel cost loss.

There are just TOO many of them. No one has monies to buy new airplanes and banks are becomming more strict on who they lend money to. I doubt they would be willing to lend money to airlines when they're all going BK.

[RightSeatGirl]

I don't continue discussion when someone insists on attacking Smitty...therefore I decided not to respond at all. But since you addressed the issue, at least in a somewhat more congenial manner (you really could have skipped the I love Ford crack and the jab at Gonzo) I'll reply.

This quote from analyst Mike Boyd was taken from an article regarding the DAL/NWA merger and reflects something that we will in my opinion be seeing a lot of industry wide..

"The most likely scenario would be fleet rationalization, analyst Mike Boyd said, with regional carriers taking the first hit. "These leasing companies--small jet providers--are clearly in the crosshairs," Boyd said. "Delta and Northwest, regardless of any merger, have about 125 too many 50-seaters that have to go quick. They are losing money on every flight, with or without a merger.""

That was where I was going...Sometimes I prefer a preemptive statement before I get into the substance of my point...It's just how I discuss.

[OldTownPilot]

HA! good old Mike Boyd. He used to work for Bar Harbor back in the 80's. Ask any old Bah Habah guy to tell you a Boyd story....You wont be disappointed. I've heard a few around the house, But I can't give it nearly enough justice as my parents can.

[Polar742]

The year: 1999
The place: LGA USExpress Crew room
The vision: A sticker containing a picture of a -8 and the motto "Flying yesterday's airplanes into tomorrow"

Kids, that's when Piedmonster and Allegheny coexisted flying identical airframes on identical routes. However, ALG -8 Cappies were making over 80k/yr.

When the mainlines don't have cash to order the commuter airframe of the month, the contractors flourish. (Source: Historic Cycles, and the airlines that love them. Vol 1.)

[RightSeatGirl]

So true....so true....And right now PDT is facing a battle with mainline management "jet snobs" that are holding onto the dream of an all jet industry as long as they can. The problem with this fight is that it may take us both down.

The economics of today's marketplace in my opinion means that turboprops are the future of regional flying. Don't know if that will be widely recognized enough to make a difference before several ships sink or not...I hope so. That's assuming that regional flying in it's present form has a future itself....which is actually sort of doubtful when talking about smaller outstations

[SmitteyB]

Long live the TP.

Passengers better get used to the noisy props. What more do you expect when you're flying from ELMIRA to PHILLY?

A jet has NO PLACE on that route. They are better utilized on a PHL to BNA run. Airways still thinks that PAX are in love with jets though. Some of them are, but most just want the cheaper ticket. So what if the Dash takes 13 minutes longer. You just saved 200 gallons of JetA.

[RightSeatGirl]

True...today. But after thinking about it a bit more I have to wonder if it even matters any longer. Because when oil hits $200 a barrel 50 seat or less Tprops will be about as profitable as 50 seat or less jets are today. And that isn't years away, it's months.

[Polar742]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

Long live the TP.

Passengers better get used to the noisy props. What more do you expect when you're flying from ELMIRA to PHILLY?

A jet has NO PLACE on that route. They are better utilized on a PHL to BNA run. Airways still thinks that PAX are in love with jets though. Some of them are, but most just want the cheaper ticket. So what if the Dash takes 13 minutes longer. You just saved 200 gallons of JetA.

There was a time a SF340 flew IND-IAD everyday and was packed full. Then pax could connect thru CLE. The SF340 was about 1/2 full. When ACA did IND-IAD, the SF340 was empty. True story. After roselawn, pax actually would ask travel agents to not book them on t-props, many would even take connections over a direct flight. The RJs were heralded by pax for saving them from flying props.

I remember one day, as I was saying "hi" as they boarded the mighty Barbie Fun Jet, a pax asked "does this have props?". I looked outside, and said "I don't think so.".

This, of course, was ancient history. Circa 2000.

Tprops have always been the most efficient vehicles up to what? 300 or 400 nm. Even when the new generation 50 seaters came out (The ol' BaC1-11 I think held about 50), the manufacturers agreed. However, at that time, the passengers wouldn't fly props, and booked jets. Five years later, they were whining incessently about the "tiny" 50 seat jets.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by RightSeatGirl

So you gonna follow Ford all over the forum and quote everything he posts...Very uncool to perpetuate someone else's conflict that you have nothing to do with...

Check your PM

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by RightSeatGirl

"The most likely scenario would be fleet rationalization, analyst Mike Boyd said, with regional carriers taking the first hit. "These leasing companies--small jet providers--are clearly in the crosshairs," Boyd said. "Delta and Northwest, regardless of any merger, have about 125 too many 50-seaters that have to go quick. They are losing money on every flight, with or without a merger."

I have not read the Boyd article but I would like to know how many of the money losing 50 seat jets are not really 50 seat jets. ERJ (135, 140)/some 145's and 200's weight limited to only 40-45.

[RightSeatGirl]

I believe this issue only effects the Bombardier 50 seat CRJ. I may be mistaken but I believe that the ERJ 135/145 does much better fuel burn wise.

[Chris_Ford]

You're mistaken. We had this discussion a few weeks ago.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by RightSeatGirl

I believe this issue only effects the Bombardier 50 seat CRJ. I may be mistaken but I believe that the ERJ 135/145 does much better fuel burn wise.

On short legs the 135(max 37 people) will burn a side what the saab (34 people) burns on both engine.

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I have not read the Boyd article but I would like to know how many of the money losing 50 seat jets are not really 50 seat jets. ERJ (135, 140)/some 145's and 200's weight limited to only 40-45.

How often do you see a 200 restricted to 40-45 people?

The ERJ's (specifically Eagle's) are much worse with the wieght resrictions. I would imagine that they'd be the first to go.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by RightSeatGirl

(you really could have skipped the I love Ford crack and the jab at Gonzo)

Believe me- I don't like Ford.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

On short legs the 135(max 37 people) will burn a side what the saab (34 people) burns on both engine.

If my math is right...thats TWICE the fuel burn than the Saab. For 3 more people?

[RightSeatGirl]

Nice town ya got here Smitty! Wish it wasn't gonna rain tomorrow so I could stroll the waterfront...

[wheelsup]

Gas scooters get up to 100 MPG, but few people actually purchase them.