Wow... United and US Airways to Merge

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Dave, I'm not picking on you... but THAT mentality is the single biggest problem the industry faces right now. It isn't USAPA. It isn't Skywest not unionizing. It's not the merger mania. It's guys at the regional level who are willing to fly bigger and bigger planes because they don't want to start over again.

For many people there is nothing wrong with making a career at a regional, as long as you understand the constraints that need to be placed there. But for many people they want the major pay/plane size/quality of life with out having to take any of the risk associated with making the jump. That ain't right.

My attitude is this. If I can't make the cut at a Major, I would like a place to hang my hat that keeps me in the business. I don't want to be a Regional pilot for life. I would love to land a job at one of a few Legacy carriers. The fact is that this downturn we're seeing is going to have us Regional pilots stuck here for awhile. Especially if these merger-mania's get out of hand.

Fortunately, I work for a really good company right now with a different corporate culture. UNfortunately the business here is centered around the very number of seats everyone would like to see back at mainline. Which means no job for us. I've been making less than $20,000 a year for the last 3 years getting started in this career, I'll be damned if I'm going to go another year on a salary like this. If I lose my job, I'm done. I just can not mentally and financially go through starting at the bottom at another Regional Airline. I would do it for a mainline job because the pay takes a serious jump 2nd year. I'm not the only one who feels that way or is in the same boat.

In today's economy, to be making anything less than $35,000 a year will put you on a low income standard. If mainline scoped out my job and I couldn't jump up with them, I'd be done. I'm crazy for even trying to go through with a career in this industry. At least I'm finally getting some sense to stay attached with the military, because I feel like its not a matter of IF, but WHEN I get furloughed.

Sorry if my attitude seems detrimental to the industry, but anyone would defend their job.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Airdale

UNfortunately the business here is centered around the very number of seats everyone would like to see back at mainline. Which means no job for us. Sorry if my attitude seems detrimental to the industry, but anyone would defend their job.

I dont think anyone in particular is saying REPUBLIC! We are saying 86 seat AC. Heck in fact I've put my own company in the same sentence as has many in this same convo. We are discussing 70 seaters as well. As already mentioned the old DC's for NWA use to fly at 76 and pay well over 100k..... Anyways we are speaking about an industry as a whole in which if mainline would finally take back their flying and place stiff scopes the industry as a whole would benefit. E175/E170/Crj900/Crj700 were all mentioned in this conversation.

Fact of the matter is when you really thought about getting into this industry did you think YOU would be flying cabin class aircraft at a regional? Did you think that you would be doing two leg days with some flights at the regional level going DEN-PIT (recent Shuttle guys route) or SLC-PIT (SKW was doing it in a 900 finally back to mainline).

I can answer that question and say no... When I first thought about this industry I saw Mesaba flying into Lafayette and going to Detroit and thinking that's what I'd have to do for a while before going to mainline. If I am indeed at a regional for 10 years before I go to mainline that's fine.... Guess what... that means by 33 I'm at a major and have damn near 30 years at a major? Should I cry now or later..... Fact of the matter is too many people think they deserve to be at the top and dont understand you have to work your way up. Therefore we settle with flying large aircraft that do not belong at the level in which they are!

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I just can not mentally and financially go through starting at the bottom at another Regional Airline.

So why do it? Hell you could go fly a piston and make 2x your pay. Reference Airnet. They even have a PHL prop and jet base, probably be easy to get. If you want more stability I'd go for that. If you're not getting what you want out of a regional try something else.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I'mThey should leave the scope where it is

Umm, no thanks. I'm sickened every time I taxi out of ATL. Replacement jets as far as the eye can see. And nothing is worse than seeing a -900 or a -170/-175 parked at the A or B concourses which used to be nothing but DAL mainline. DCI flies more than half of Delta's flying now. Disgusting. Anything DALPA can do to get back scope is a good thing for everyone, including you.

Originally Posted by Airdale

Sorry if my attitude seems detrimental to the industry, but anyone would defend their job.

No they wouldn't. When I worked at Pinnacle, I frequently told the NWA ALPA reps to fight to get back their scope. If that meant the elimination of my job in the short term, then so be it. Outsourcing is bad, mmm-kay?

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I'm not arguing that fact. To be honest with you, its not like its a huge sin. I mean really, 90% of all pilots only care about themselves, and pulling the ladder up behind them certainly wasn't a bad thing for them. After all, they were offered a good deal and an opportunity to tighten their ranks.

I'm arguing the fact that trying to reverse that mistake, is going to create a mess. They should leave the scope where it is, and focus on their carriers growth, contracts (PAY) and international flying. If Legacy pilots fought to bring back the pay and work rules that once existed, then maybe there would be a lot more of us reaching for that ladder.

You sure you're not arguing for the scope to stay where it is b/c you might not make the cut at a major and not get to fly your current ride anymore? Sorry, man. I'm not buying this "I know it's good for the industry but I don't think it should be done" BS. If it means a better shot at getting a mainline job, I say do it. If that means I'm on the street for a bit, fine. From the tone of your posts it sounds like that now that you've found a good thing, you don't want to lose it. I wonder if your tune would be different if you were still at Colgan.....

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Umm, no thanks. I'm sickened every time I taxi out of ATL. Replacement jets as far as the eye can see. And nothing is worse than seeing a -900 or a -170/-175 parked at the A or B concourses which used to be nothing but DAL mainline. DCI flies more than half of Delta's flying now. Disgusting. Anything DALPA can do to get back scope is a good thing for everyone, including you.

Funy but true story.... I was coming back from New Bern NC with a PDT guy in the jumpseat.... he and the CA knew each other (CA a JJ former PDT guy). Anyways we get into the ramp/gate. Next to us in CLT is a RAH E175. Well the jumpseater waits for us to deboard and get our bags to walk in with us and head to the crew room. As we walk into the gate we over heard the Captain of the E175 say to the gate agent, "Why dont we have a jet way here, we should always have a jet way." WithOUT a second thought the guy from PDT goes, "well mam perhaps its because you indeed work for a regional as if you might notice those are all regional jets out there and no jet bridges." Her look at the face was PRICELESS!

[777forever]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Funy but true story.... I was coming back from New Bern NC with a PDT guy in the jumpseat.... he and the CA knew each other (CA a JJ former PDT guy). Anyways we get into the ramp/gate. Next to us in CLT is a RAH E175. Well the jumpseater waits for us to deboard and get our bags to walk in with us and head to the crew room. As we walk into the gate we over heard the Captain of the E175 say to the gate agent, "Why dont we have a jet way here, we should always have a jet way." WithOUT a second thought the guy from PDT goes, "well mam perhaps its because you indeed work for a regional as if you might notice those are all regional jets out there and no jet bridges." Her look at the face was PRICELESS!

Not too sure but I believe the 175 doesn't have the flip down door because it sits so high up so it requires a jetbridge or airstairs. I've never gotten on a 175 or 170 without a jetbridge

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Not too sure but I believe the 175 doesn't have the flip down door because it sits so high up so it requires a jetbridge or airstairs. I've never gotten on a 175 or 170 without a jetbridge

They had the steps.. And she was ANGRY!! hahaha

[777forever]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

They had the steps.. And she was ANGRY!! hahaha

Ah, then she should shut it up

[KLB]

Originally Posted by 777forever

Ah, then she should shut it up

Thats why I added a little something to my signature!

[Kingairer]

I think for this reason, RAH is moving over to the C concourse while Mesa and their CR9s are going to E.

[Baradium]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Hmm, last time I checked a LOT of pilots magically appeared. Remember Skybus, ATA, Aloha etc. I'm sure we'll be adding more pilots to that list too before this down swing hits bottom.

That's BS. They didn't "magically" appear. They've been there. You aren't worried about jobs overall, you're worried about YOUR specific company.

When it comes down to it, if the planes go to mainline, the same number of pilots will need to be employed (actually more, as was already pointed out due to their better work rules). So the pay goes up, the number of pilots required goes up. So the number of pilots unemployed goes down. The capacity those furloughed pilots covered will rebound, so jobs will be there. When blocks of pilots are furloughed, there's a rebound period, but it happens. And this was not a large number of pilots furloughed. Some were, but it's not like there are 10,000 pilots out of work right now.

I understand how it is good for the industry. More mainline jobs....just so you can be furloughed in 5 years because the attrition rate is minimal right? And then hope to get a J4J job with a company flying something other than a prop while you await recall, because you're a "Mainline" pilot, God forbid you have to go back to flying anything with props. Those are for boats anyway. I get it I get it.

Attrition will be the same as it is now at mainline carriers. Many retirements. Since attrition at regionals are generally from people moving into spots at majors, attrition would wash out. Sorry, bad argument there.

Originally Posted by Airdale

My attitude is this. If I can't make the cut at a Major, I would like a place to hang my hat that keeps me in the business. I don't want to be a Regional pilot for life. I would love to land a job at one of a few Legacy carriers. The fact is that this downturn we're seeing is going to have us Regional pilots stuck here for awhile. Especially if these merger-mania's get out of hand.

The truth comes out? If this scope happened, regionals would be forced to go back to a smaller plane. You would make the same amount (there isn't exactly a big pay difference between planes at the regionals) and still have a job. You just want the best of both. Guess what, why should there be a mainline job for you to fly almost the same airplane at 5 times the pay if you're willing to fly it for 20k a year?

Fortunately, I work for a really good company right now with a different corporate culture. UNfortunately the business here is centered around the very number of seats everyone would like to see back at mainline. Which means no job for us. I've been making less than $20,000 a year for the last 3 years getting started in this career, I'll be damned if I'm going to go another year on a salary like this. If I lose my job, I'm done. I just can not mentally and financially go through starting at the bottom at another Regional Airline. I would do it for a mainline job because the pay takes a serious jump 2nd year. I'm not the only one who feels that way or is in the same boat.

In today's economy, to be making anything less than $35,000 a year will put you on a low income standard. If mainline scoped out my job and I couldn't jump up with them, I'd be done. I'm crazy for even trying to go through with a career in this industry. At least I'm finally getting some sense to stay attached with the military, because I feel like its not a matter of IF, but WHEN I get furloughed.

Sorry if my attitude seems detrimental to the industry, but anyone would defend their job.

I think you understand that this would result in more jobs. But since you feel your's is "secure" right now you want to keep the status quo. If you get a few pennies ahead, then that's the best thing?

A changeover would be slow, and the majors would need to pick up pilots as they brought those planes online. It'd be a transition, so it's not like every pilot would be out of a job. It'd be high attrition as pilots went from regionals to majors as their planes went away. Then it'd stabilize with remaining smaller aircraft at the regional level (Q400s?) This should amount to a reset to a situation like now, with pilots entering regionals and transitioning. The difference being a shorter wait to the majors and a much better shot for YOU to get to one.

[myron96]

If anyone is interested PM me..... I can do referrals... LOL

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[kellwolf]

Anyone else find it sad that even GREYHOUND pays for their drivers training, lodging meals AND per diem? Wait, meals AND per diem? How do I get THAT deal?

[EDUC8-or]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

I think for this reason, RAH is moving over to the C concourse while Mesa and their CR9s are going to E.

NAH, it's because it's hard to see all the little RJ's and Dash 8's when you're sitting up so high. (That's just my guess. I often hear them say "We'll follow the little guy.", or "We'll watch out for the little guy." on N. Ramp freq, so we must be really hard to see way up there in that BIG airplane)

[Bog]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Anyone else find it sad that even GREYHOUND pays for their drivers training, lodging meals AND per diem? Wait, meals AND per diem? How do I get THAT deal?

I'm pretty sure the railroads do, too. Plus, they make better money than regional pilots.