no more jets for QX

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Tram

Pinnacle is replacing the entire fleet with Q400's..

We are slated to get the first 4 in July of 08'.. 4 a month until October, then it's 8 a month... *

Yeah, I heard that when I was at the CEC today. People are starting to get worried that they might go to Colgan, though.

[PatrickCPS]

If the cost of fuel doesn't come down (and I don't see any reason why it would), I think you'll see more airlines dumping RJs for Tprops to try and get some profitability back into the companies.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by UPSpilot

This is actually good new when you really think about it. It means that Horizon will go back to being a real "regional" airline, flying turboprops like regionals are supposed to do. They will probably stop flying the longer legs that they currently fly and have Alaska take those back over with mainline jets. If more regionals did this there would be more mainline domestic flying and more mainline jobs in the future, which IS the reason that y'all are here in the first place isn't it?

Interesting take.... Although you have a point.... I never thought of this until talking to a buddy at DAL tonight..... If the legacy carriers would take over the E170s, E175, CRJ900 etc.... That would then also create more jobs at mainline. Hence the regionals are then flying small aircraft and more so along regional routes... In addition mainline would then have more planes, more positions, more jobs, and a chance to get onto a major carrrier earlier in your career perhaps..... I really think you have a great point there..... However many probably overlook this as its become very common place. However if you are a regional pilot you ask a mainline guy for the most part they would agree... The 76 seaters plus belong at mainline.....

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

So 21 CRJ 700s that are relatively new arent they? Where the hell do you place 21 RJ700's to?

I'm sure someone will buy those beast up.

If they go out into the market, I wouldn't complain if we bought them.

Originally Posted by PatrickCPS

If the cost of fuel doesn't come down (and I don't see any reason why it would), I think you'll see more airlines dumping RJs for Tprops to try and get some profitability back into the companies.

A strengthening dollar will allow the price to decrease.

[PanJet]

This is interesting because I know the Horizon just recently hired a few new guys (even though they're supposedly not hiring), and some of them went straight into the CR7.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

You will see E170's at Eagle before any new 700's.

No, no, no......the additional 700's are coming any day!! They promised! It's a done deal.



According to a source in the training department (so you know how valid this is ) Eagle has obtained the financing for the additional 25 CRJ-700's and is just waiting on the go-ahead to purchase them.


......That....and two month upgrades for 500 hour pilots is right around the corner too.

Hey -it's Ealge! You believe things when you see things.

[Cheechako]

I was just reading about the fleet plan this morning,

Here's what it boils down to.
Currently:
12 Q200s
33 Q400s
20 CRJ700s
65 total airplanes times 5 crews per (just a guess) = 325 crews

After the 18-24 month transition leaves:
48 Q400s times 5 crews = 240 crews

That's a difference of 85 crews, or 170 pilot positions based on 5 crews per aircraft. Does anybody have more accurate staffing numbers?

While this sounds tough for the Horizon guys, this is exactly how the relationship between mainline and regional should work. While Horizon can actually be profitable on the CRJ runs, the Air Group suffers. On some of the routes, the Air Group can yank a CRJ and substitute it with a mainline 737 and lose less money- that's the key in today's industry. Profitability, hopefully, will soon follow. This also trims costs for Horizon by going to one fleet type- another key today. They're saying the fleet transition plan could save $50 million a year.

One disturbing note, though is

But the fact remains that Alaska's losses from our CRJ CPA flying are substantial. One way for Alaska to reduce these loses is to have Horizon operate them with a Q400 or pursue another less costly alternative, like finding another regional airline that would serve the market on its own.

This sounds to me like, "we can't make money with our own equipment, so let's make money by handing off the losses to someone else." Good business sense, bad for employees.

[cfii2007]

It would be ironic if CRJ's went away in the next 3-5 years, replaced by turboprops, and mainline flying picked up the former routes, with less congested airports, fewer lost bags and better paid pilots.

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by cfii2007

It would be ironic if CRJ's went away in the next 3-5 years, replaced by turboprops, and mainline flying picked up the former routes, with less congested airports, fewer lost bags and better paid pilots.

It would be even better if all RJs period, went away.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by UPSpilot

It would be even better if all RJs period, went away.

The who would you have to talk down to UPS? RJs may start being replaced with T-Props but there will always be regional airlines providing that lift.

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

The who would you have to talk down to UPS? RJs may start being replaced with T-Props but there will always be regional airlines providing that lift.

Not talking "down" to anyone, even you. "Regionals" should go back to being "commuters" flying turboprops and all jet flying should be at the mainline. That way you guys would have something to look forward to instead of being a regional lifer like so many are today.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by UPSpilot

Not talking "down" to anyone, even you. "Regionals" should go back to being "commuters" flying turboprops and all jet flying should be at the mainline. That way you guys would have something to look forward to instead of being a regional lifer like so many are today.

I agree with the message, but often time the tone and the wording used to convey your message DOES come off as talking down to people. That tends to get the message lost.

[Baronman]

Just curious...Why would major airline execs want regional jets at the majors? Right now you can get a big RJ flying around with a first class section etc with guys up front making $65/hr and $23/hr and flight attendants in the back making a corresponding salary. Even better is that the guys doing it think they're doing "all right" and are happy to be there. As long as it's a quick upgrade who cares what the pay is, I'm flying, I'm getting paid, I'll upgrade soon, and hopefully I'll be at a major. It's a lost cause.

[kellwolf]

The execs wouldn't. For the progression of the profession overall, it'd be good, though. I believe RJs were offered to the mainline guys first b/c they HAD to be b/c of scope clauses. Hindsight's always 20/20, though.

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by Baronman

Just curious...Why would major airline execs want regional jets at the majors? Right now you can get a big RJ flying around with a first class section etc with guys up front making $65/hr and $23/hr and flight attendants in the back making a corresponding salary. Even better is that the guys doing it think they're doing "all right" and are happy to be there. As long as it's a quick upgrade who cares what the pay is, I'm flying, I'm getting paid, I'll upgrade soon, and hopefully I'll be at a major. It's a lost cause.

You're right, it is a lost cause. All this wishful thinking won't change a thing. The passenger airline industry is hopelessly screwed and will never be like it was in the "glory days" that the young guns still fantasize about when they start flight training.

[Rayflyoz]

It’s hard to predict what will actually happen at Horizon. There a lot of rumors floating around right now. There is still the idea that this is bullying tactics to force us to sign a contract we don’t want (pay cut). Or even that a bigger jet is on the way, E190 or something like that. Basically it goes from bad, -20 RJ's and no increase which means around 200 pilot reduction. Ok, one for one with the 400 and not much change. And good, a new a/c on property. So far I'm betting on the one for one. However it might be time to update the ole resume

[Rayflyoz]

Originally Posted by PanJet

This is interesting because I know the Horizon just recently hired a few new guys (even though they're supposedly not hiring), and some of them went straight into the CR7.

Yes we did and there is a class of 8 for the Q400 in May. The question I’m wondering is if were overstaffed of the jet and the Q200, and possibility in 18 months of furloughs. Why are we hiring???

[TexasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Rayflyoz

Yes we did and there is a class of 8 for the Q400 in May. The question I’m wondering is if were overstaffed of the jet and the Q200, and possibility in 18 months of furloughs. Why are we hiring???

I gave up asking why in this industry. It's gotten me nowhere.

I love the Q400 though as an aircraft. But then, I'm a t-prop fan. Not a fan of t-prop pay though (or any Regional pay for that matter). But again, I won't ask why on pay either since again that will get me nowhere...

[Rayflyoz]

Good point, I tried to understand airline thinking. Say for example crew scheduling, however I just got a bad headache.

[bike21]

Originally Posted by TexasFlyer

I gave up asking why in this industry. It's gotten me nowhere.

Originally Posted by Rayflyoz

Good point, I tried to understand airline thinking. Say for example crew scheduling, however I just got a bad headache.

Amen to that. I have basically given up caring/ranting/internets debating about such things. Life is much easier just going to work and worrying about point A to B. Then going home forgetting about it all and riding my bike. Good stuff

[meyers9163]

Some SKW and DAL people out there... Any truth to SKW wanting to buy all of these planes? As well as perhaps DAL buying them I have read? Any sources or news coming from either company?

[Rayflyoz]

I did hear somthing about Skywest getting them. but its too early to really know.