uSAPa begins destruction of USAirways

[PCL_128]

uSAPa just won the representational vote at USAirways. No more Air Line Pilots Association to represent the AAA and AWA pilots. My sympathies to the AWA pilots. My thoughts to the AAA pilots would constitute "vitriol" according to the forum guidelines, so I'll keep them to myself. Suffice it to say that they would include many expletives.

[BobDDuck]

They won by a pretty hefty percentage too.

Other then that, not much to say.

[wheelsup]

So what will the new seniority list look like? Will all the east guys be ahead of the west guys? East FO's pushing west CA's to FO's?

[PCL_128]

The seniority list will not change. The Nic award is binding upon uSAPa.

[wheelsup]

OK now I'm confused. I had thought that the reason ALPA was being voted out was to try to renegotiate the seniority list. What was the reason the easties didn't want ALPA in anymore?

[MusketeerMan]

Oh no...the great savior is voted out! Guess some of those ALPA half mil salaries will have to go down a tad.

[PCL_128]

The Easties are angry about the Nic award and claim that ALPA should have invalidated it. They hope to use their strength in numbers to negotiate a new seniority list as part of the Section 6 process, using DOH as the basis. They would basically have to give up any other sorts of contract improvements to achieve this, if Parker would even entertain the idea at all (unlikely). The result of this would be a massive Duty of Fair Representation lawsuit brought by the West pilots, of course, but uSAPa will probably be bankrupt long before they can negotiate anything anyway. With half of the pilot group refusing to pay dues, and no services from ALPA, uSAPa can't survive.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by MusketeerMan

Oh no...the great savior is voted out! Guess some of those ALPA half mil salaries will have to go down a tad.

No one in Herndon makes anything close to a "half mil salary." Get educated.

[Foxcow]

This will probably be the end of Airways...


According to the USAPA website, ALPA salaries are as follows:
http://1.usairlinepilots.org/ALPA_salaries.htm

I've seen these figures a few other places as well.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Foxcow

According to the USAPA website, ALPA salaries are as follows:
http://1.usairlinepilots.org/ALPA_salaries.htm

I've seen these figures a few other places as well.

Those salary figures are calculated using a complicated DOL formula that includes all sorts of things as "compensation." For instance, if Captain Prater rents a car on ALPA business, the reimbursement he receives is required to be reported to the DOL as "compensation."

[kellwolf]

Going off of their way of thinking, first year PCL FO's make over $41K a year. That's assuming only flying 75 hours a month, $300 a month in per diem and being away from home 15 nights a month. I can tell ya, I didn't make $41K my first year......

[PCL_128]

Yeah, I ran a calculation one time of how much the DOL would calculate my CA's salary at Pinnacle using their asinine union reporting guidelines, and it came to well above six figures. As you know, I was not making six figures.

[Velocipede]

Again, the over/under on USAir...3 years.

uSAPa pilot's motto: "Full pay until the last day!" (I'm not kidding, either!)

[wheelsup]

I hope Doug Parker will intervene here, or give some guidance. Heck I don't know what he can do except all I know is that the original AWA pilots loved working there and he treated his people well. His wife is a former AFA President, she advises him on labor issues (or did at least). Their planes were nice and clean and employees were happy. Flying on them was a great experience.

Now when I non-rev on mainline (east side) I get the silent treatment from most F/A's. Or when I try to make conversation they are very curt, or they simply answer the question. Ie "Do you know what time it is?"; "Yes."

I'm not joking. I now there are some good people on the east side but the majority seem bitter (and who can blame them, they have been screwed more than anyone it seems). Maybe an independent pilot group is a good idea, then they have no one to blame but themselves when they screw themselves out of their 6 figure jobs.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Maybe an independent pilot group is a good idea, then they have no one to blame but themselves when they screw themselves out of their 6 figure jobs.

Sadly, this rings very true.

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

Those salary figures are calculated using a complicated DOL formula that includes all sorts of things as "compensation." For instance, if Captain Prater rents a car on ALPA business, the reimbursement he receives is required to be reported to the DOL as "compensation."

It's reported ss it should be reported. It's basic "compensation" as you call it and is reported this way in all types of management. Base salary nearly $350K....though as you state earlier, it's no way near half a mil??? Get educated.

[PCL_128]

The ALPA President makes a small premium over what he would make flying the line. The $350k includes a housing allowance and other items, not just his paychecks. The other National Officers receive an even smaller premium over what they would get flying the line, and their reported compensation is also including other items.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Again, the over/under on USAir...3 years.

Is there any airline these days that would have an over/under of more then 3 years?

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Foxcow

This will probably be the end of Airways...


According to the USAPA website, ALPA salaries are as follows:
http://1.usairlinepilots.org/ALPA_salaries.htm

I've seen these figures a few other places as well.

Why is this the end of Airways? How many times have they been Ch. 11, what makes you believe simply voting ALPA to the curb is going to tank them? If anything, the pilots will end up losing because they just gave management the upper hand.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Why is this the end of Airways? How many times have they been Ch. 11, what makes you believe simply voting ALPA to the curb is going to tank them? If anything, the pilots will end up losing because they just gave management the upper hand.

Well when half of the pilot group hates eachother, you've got a problem.

I don't necessarily think it will be the end of US Airways, but it's going to get a lot bumpier.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

OK now I'm confused. I had thought that the reason ALPA was being voted out was to try to renegotiate the seniority list. What was the reason the easties didn't want ALPA in anymore?

I think the Nic award is binding and Parker's already scoffed at re-opening the SLI through section six negoatiations.

Gooooood luck folks.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

Well when half of the pilot group hates eachother, you've got a problem.

I don't necessarily think it will be the end of US Airways, but it's going to get a lot bumpier.

Since when has half of a merged pilot group NOT hated each other? Airways will be fine. The grumpy old men will retire in a few years and everyone will get over it. If the issues interrupt business, then management will start dropping a hammer and any court/abritrator will side with them. Airways will fire and rehire if needed or people will leave in droves. Either way, both sides will quit their crying and get on with their lives.

People are making a big deal over this for no reason. The East guys have more numbers anyway, with USAPA, they think they'll be happy and the West side doesn't have the numbers to make more than a ripple. Parker is sitting back and laughing at his pilots acting like children, I bet he couldn't be happier.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by PCL_128

My thoughts to the AAA pilots would constitute "vitriol" according to the forum guidelines, so I'll keep them to myself. Suffice it to say that they would include many expletives.

I seriously appreciate it. I do.

I'm very upset as well, so imagine how many hectopascals of steaming pressure I have in my cranium attempting to hold it all in and keep it professional and educational for the folks on the sidelines to understand what went down.

[adreamer]

Well, I am wondering how does that affect WOs...

Good luck, Doug.

[PCL_128]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Since when has half of a merged pilot group NOT hated each other? Airways will be fine. The grumpy old men will retire in a few years and everyone will get over it. If the issues interrupt business, then management will start dropping a hammer and any court/abritrator will side with them. Airways will fire and rehire if needed or people will leave in droves. Either way, both sides will quit their crying and get on with their lives.

People are making a big deal over this for no reason. The East guys have more numbers anyway, with USAPA, they think they'll be happy and the West side doesn't have the numbers to make more than a ripple. Parker is sitting back and laughing at his pilots acting like children, I bet he couldn't be happier.

You're vastly underestimating the seriousness of this situation. This isn't just some typical merger scuffle. The West pilots will burn the airline to the ground.