Seatbelt sign rant time

[Seggy]

[begin rant]

We are professional pilots. Part of being a professional is to provide safe flight for the paying people in the back.

When people complain that passengers don't 'follow' the fasten seat belt signs when it is on or off I think we as pilots are partially to blame on this. On my E180 flight today, it was a short flight from PHL to ALB, but I would say 10 people got up to use the bathroom during the cruise portion.

The fasten seat belt sign remained on during the entire flight. I have noticed this a lot, regardless of the flight conditions the fasten seat belt sign will stay on for the entire time, the crew overlooking it when jumpseating, etc. As professionals if we payed more attention to detail in turning it on and off at appropriate times, people will pay more attention to it and not be as 'immune' to it.

Don't tell me that if it is on the airline is not open to lawsuits if a passenger gets hurt. A person who is going to sue, is going to sue.

[/end rant]

[kellwolf]

Honestly, "on" or "off" passengers are gonna get up. I've had numerous times when the FA's yelling at someone to sit down on final approach. Then there are the people that decide they need to use the lav during taxi. I don't see the seatbelt sign being a deterrent to them, and I don't think turning it off when we're in cruise and smooth air is gonna help things. Most of the time, the FA will say something to the flight crew if we forget. Sometimes, it's only a 45 minute flight and we keep the sign on to help the FA with her service. Kinda tough to dodge around people with that aisle-sized cart.

I don't think people are "immune" to the seat belt sign. I think they just don't care.

[Nick]

The seatbelt sign is the boy who cried wolf.

If it is always on then it never means anything when it comes on because it's like the engines being on.

I agree with you -- if flight crews want people to obey the seatbelt sign more, they should turn it off when, for two hours, there is no turbulence felt and none reported ahead.

Far worse than the seatbelt sign never coming off, in my opinion, is the flight attendants locking the lav door. Just because it takes longer for people sit down in the beginning does not mean they should have no place to piss and poop. That is asanine. If they knew there was going to be no lav on the airplane (B1900 or MEL'd on whatever else) then that is not what I am talking about. I'm referring to the F/As who lock dozens of people out of a bathroom until 10,000 feet, as if their bladder cares what altitude the plane is at. Senior citizens could have some issue that the F/A cannot possibly understand yet they lock them right out.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Most of the time, the FA will say something to the flight crew if we forget. Sometimes, it's only a 45 minute flight and we keep the sign on to help the FA with her service. Kinda tough to dodge around people with that aisle-sized cart.

To clarify this, we had an announcement made, "due to the short duration of the flight no drink service will be offered yadayadayada."

However, on Air Wisconsin and Mainline, I routinely have full beverage services.

[Soul Brotha']

Recently we were like 40 something for t/o at JFK during the evening push. Well anyone who's been through the JFK international push knows that sometimes you sit holding short of a taxiway for up to 30 min at a time. As we progressed our way to number 3 or 4, we fire up our number 1 engine(CRJ drivers know why). After start up and announcement that we were number 2 for takeoff, the FA calls us and says that a pax "had to use the lav." What comes next, you guess it, "CMR XXX position and hold Rwy 13R." Us, "yeah tower we need to hold off for a second, we got a pax in the lav." Tower, "CMR XXX, taxi down to PB and rejoin the line."

[Qgar]

Don't even get me started with pax not obeying the fasten seat belt sign. The new one now is pax turning their laptops/ipods on the minute we're up in the air. Today alone we had to tell about 8 people (out of about 50) that they had to turn them off until we made the announcement past 10,000 ft. The killer? A commuting pilot for another airline! WTF? Oh and I love it when they roll their eyes at me like I'm just being a big pain in the ass.

[mtsu_av8er]

When I catch a FA locking the lav door, I tell her not to do it, and I unlock it.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

When I catch a FA locking the lav door, I tell her not to do it, and I unlock it.

She would be locking it because. . . ?

I now know the little secret to at least unlocking a locked RJ lav door. . .but who would want to do that.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

She would be locking it because. . . ?

I now know the little secret to at least unlocking a locked RJ lav door. . .but who would want to do that.

That's what I'm talking about too, some just lock it before boarding to expedite the departure and leave it locked until 10,000 feet.

I know that it's annoying to have someone go in there and then tell the cockpit crew "we're not ready to close up yet, someone's in the lav" but they have the right to go the restroom in a confined environment. Of course they should have gone before they boarded. But these things happen.

Or number 40 in line at some northeast hub, and the departure fix has been shut down by center, but the airplane is still slowly plodding around the taxiways trying to get to a good spot to shut down. Well, some 80-90 year old passenger might not be able to hold it for two hours anymore...seatbelt sign or active taxiway be damned, they have every right to get up and use the lav they paid for instead of defecating in their seat. Passengers should not be locked out of their only restroom.

[surreal1221]

Ah hah! Makes sense now.

Smart gals. Very smart, all the more power to them.

But yes, of course, if circumstances appear that it'll be an extended period of time prior to departure, then yes. . .unlock it.

But, let's also hope that the up front crew alerts the cabin crew early enough to get everyone seated and ready to go.

[Firebird2XC]

I was sitting in row 9 of a Beech 1900 one day deadheading home from BOS.

We're departing Runway 4L.

We're at 400 feet in a left 30 degree bank... and the passenger in 4F decides to unbuckle his seatbelt, stand up in the aisle, then lean across the seats on the left side of the aisle to look out the window.

I didn't hesitate. Loud enough to be heard over the engines but just short of a military tone I clearly said "Sir, SIT DOWN NOW."

He listened.

Still didn't buckle up. At that point I was hoping we hit wake turbulence justs so he'd learn a lesson.


Either way, Seggy's right. I've been on flights where they were well in excess of an hour in smooth air and the seatbelt sign never goes off. I've prompted captains more than several times.

I think it's a throwback to the days of all turboprop flying when the legs were much shorter for a 'regional' pilot. That, or some captains that think it'll make life easier for the FAs.

[adreamer]

I've been on flights where they were well in excess of an hour in smooth air and the seatbelt sign never goes off. I've prompted captains more than several times.

From my experiences, decision to turn Seatbelt sign off is captain's comfort level. From one of captains I have flown with, if pax get hurts from CAT, it would be his / her rear on the line to be sued. According to this captain, there are cases out there.

[MQAAord]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

When I catch a FA locking the lav door, I tell her not to do it, and I unlock it.

What if s/he is locking it per company procedures in their manual?

Are you talking specifically about flights on your airline, and you know the policy/procedure in their manual about locking lavs? Or do you do that on every and any flight you're on?



The only time in AMR's procedures that our book called for locking the lav was in preparation for a planned emergency landing. It was not something that was in our books to do as part of pre-departure/pre-landing checks, and it was not something that I did. BUT, I don't know every airlines' procedures, so it may be procedure for another airline to do that.

[ZapBrannigan]

At least you guys have a lav... (holding it hurts!)

[UPSpilot]

Ours are all deactivated.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Nick

seatbelt sign or active taxiway be damned, they have every right to get up and use the lav they paid for instead of defecating in their seat. Passengers should not be locked out of their only restroom.

I agree it doesn't need to be locked. I don't agree that they should just be able to get up and go while on an active taxiiway. Call me overly cautious, but it's a safety issue. If someone wants to use the lav and we're not going anywhere for a while, cool. Let 'em get up, go and come right back. I'm not turning the seatbelt sign off for that, though. One person gets up, and about 5 are suddenly gonna say "Hey, my bladder's a little full, too." Our policy is if someone is up, we ain't moving. If someone gets up while we're taxiing, that brake comes on. It doesn't come off until they're back in their seat. Which means, it doesn't come off as far as I'm concerned until the FA calls me back and says everyone is seated. I got no problem with someone getting up and using the lav if we're #30 in PHL and not moving. But it's a case by case basis.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by UPSpilot

Ours are all deactivated.

So.. given your average leg length... whattya do if ya gotta go?

[ERfly]

What about all the folks who unfasten their seat belts as soon as the mains touch?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by ERfly

What about all the folks who unfasten their seat belts as soon as the mains touch?

They're idiots.

[SoCalAprch]

First off, if its under 30 minutes most captains will generally leave the sign on. As an FO if its a longer flight and its smooth out I will ask if they would like to "let em up". Usually they say, sure or no because... I have flown with captains who have the mentality of "They aren't going to listen anyways and if its on and someone gets hurt we have a much better stance in court" and I have seen some who shut it off through 10 grand even if it doesn't look to perfect outside. Everyone is different and it is the captains discretion.

Second who really cares. I like shop talk and getting all the ins and out of the industry but its getting to the point of a bunch of elderly women gossiping about how other people are doing their jobs. Goto work, do what you think is right, and go home. If someone else does it differently ask them why they did it that way. Im sure all of them will have some sort of valid reason. We should all know better than to sit in row 13A and critique a crews actions when we know nothing of what is going on up front. There very well may have been reports of chop ahead that you just didn't get into for whatever reasons on this flight. They may have just been a crap crew, who knows but I wasn't up there and don't know what went into the decision to leave the signs on so I am not going to pass any judgement.

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

So.. given your average leg length... whattya do if ya gotta go?

Not the lavs, the seat belt signs.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by UPSpilot

Not the lavs, the seat belt signs.

We have one. It's one of us turning around and yelling, "Hang on this one will be fun".

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

Second who really cares. I like shop talk and getting all the ins and out of the industry but its getting to the point of a bunch of elderly women gossiping about how other people are doing their jobs. Goto work, do what you think is right, and go home. If someone else does it differently ask them why they did it that way. Im sure all of them will have some sort of valid reason. We should all know better than to sit in row 13A and critique a crews actions when we know nothing of what is going on up front. There very well may have been reports of chop ahead that you just didn't get into for whatever reasons on this flight. They may have just been a crap crew, who knows but I wasn't up there and don't know what went into the decision to leave the signs on so I am not going to pass any judgement.

I agree 99%, except for the crap crew part. Over a seat belt sign?

Its becoming a pet peeve of mine because it seems like its forgotten a lot, but since I've never had one (Fasten Seatbelt Sign) I ask if its smooth in cruise to turn it off.

[Alchemy]

Well, I had typed a few paragraphs of jibberish but I think I can sum it up better by just saying I agree with Seggy.

[Polar742]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Well, I had typed a few paragraphs of jibberish but I think I can sum it up better by just saying I agree with Seggy.