Colgan Ops Bulletin

[SmitteyB]

Company put out a new Ops Bulletin advising flight crews that run-ups/first flight of the day checks are being eliminated.

They are getting DRASTIC with cost cutting measures now. They say it's to save money with engine starts and fuel, but come on.

Cutting :15 minutes of pay credit from the morning crews.

Within the past two months they have taken:

MX CANCELLATION PAY
RUNUP PAY
CHANGED HOT RESERVE QUALIFICATIONS
BLOCK OR BETTER LANGUAGE

Whats next?

[kellwolf]

Wait....wha? FFoD items eliminated? Is that even LEGAL?


"Okay, let's turn the radar on.....crap, it doesn't work. Woulda been nice to know that before we left. I guess it's a good thing we got rid of that FFoD check stuff...."

[Snuggle]

huh? I don't get how they can get away with that. Do you mean the pay credit or the actual checks are being done away with?

[BobDDuck]

I think CJ guys were paid 15 minutes for their first flight prep work.

I've got zero sympathy for you guys. I know that most people who post here are part of the 49% who said yes, but that's just the way things go. Sure it sucks, but remember, you have ZERO legal recourse for anything that doesn't violate a law.

Maybe this will be a wakeup call for the sixty something percent at Skywest, but I doubt it.

[surreal1221]

Wow. . .just wow.

Maybe companies shouldn't bid for contracts at a price that won't provide a profit.

But hey - that'd mean putting safety first.

[SmitteyB]

Negative, the First Flight of The Day checks are still required, however...they're now to be completed after you're boarded and taxiing out.

Thus not requiring the company to pay us for this.

However, knowing this pilot group...I forsee EVERY leg over blocking by 15 minutes.

[Polar742]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

I forsee EVERY leg over blocking by 15 minutes.

...That's generous.

What really needs to happen is when the plane goes out, it comes back to have MX done. Then you have to add fuel, god knows how long that will take.

Delays speak volumes....

Ontime dies, stuff gets done. Since ya'll non-union, it's gotta be 100% or the offings will begin...

Happy Crews Save Gas

[Minuteman]

Originally Posted by Polar742

Happy Crews Save Gas

Its often not even out of malice, revenge, ill-will or whatever. Its just "one of those things." ... and here CJC goes and puts a 15-minute handicap on the entire day's operation.

[Polar742]

Originally Posted by Minuteman

Its often not even out of malice, revenge, ill-will or whatever. Its just "one of those things." ... and here CJC goes and puts a 15-minute handicap on the entire day's operation.

Prolly some person in a cube looking at numbers all day said, "I can save $1.6 mil a year!" Went up the financial side of the house, hit the CEO then tumbled down in to the ops side of the house.

The game is the same. Just the name of the company, the upper deck and the airplanes change...

[MusketeerMan]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

I think CJ guys were paid 15 minutes for their first flight prep work.

I've got zero sympathy for you guys. I know that most people who post here are part of the 49% who said yes, but that's just the way things go. Sure it sucks, but remember, you have ZERO legal recourse for anything that doesn't violate a law.

Maybe this will be a wakeup call for the sixty something percent at Skywest, but I doubt it.

Huh? What does this have to do with Skywest? This thread involves Colgan. You're not gonna get that 65% to change unless things start getting somewhat bad there...like maybe if they take away their profit sharing, the bonuses, etc..

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

Within the past two months they have taken:

MX CANCELLATION PAY
RUNUP PAY
CHANGED HOT RESERVE QUALIFICATIONS
BLOCK OR BETTER LANGUAGE

All that stuff combined sounds like a pretty big deal to me. You're right though. Until they touch somebody's bonus there probably won't be a response.

[sorrygottarunway]

I had to laugh because in the previous version of our FOPP, it specifically prohibited us from performing runups with passengers aboard. Funny how its now suddenly "alright!"

[Firebird2XC]

This is precisely the kind of thing that union contract work is supposed to prevent.

While pro-union types like myself often talk about the 'quality of life and pay' issues with a contract, what we have here is a far more serious problem.

This is 'pilot pushing'. Forcing pilots to cut corners in ways that may well be impractical or unsafe as a means to produce a desired event in company operations.

THIS is why airline pilot unions have worked so hard to push for advancements in safety. Left to their own devices, a struggling airline management group will clearly not hesitate to do unscrupulous and potentially dangerous things.

I flew for Colgan Air. Given the fact that I've seen many a Colgan airplane return from a FFoD check for maintenance, even something minor (but obviously required) this can't possibly be a realistic expectation of the company.

Translation? You're expected, now more than ever, to 'overlook things' and deal with them 'later', i.e., when it is more money-practical for the company.

This is a HIGHLY serious issue- I strongly suggest anyone flying for Colgan Air THINK TWICE before they cut a corner for the sake of the company. If Colgan Air is this willing to blur the line between safe and unsafe, it seems highly unlikely that they would be willing to defend a pilot at their expense in the event of an accident or enforcement action.

My deepest sympathies for Colgan Air pilots. May you get relief of union protection or a better job opportunity soon.

[dingo222]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

This is precisely the kind of thing that union contract work is supposed to prevent.

While pro-union types like myself often talk about the 'quality of life and pay' issues with a contract, what we have here is a far more serious problem.

This is 'pilot pushing'. Forcing pilots to cut corners in ways that may well be impractical or unsafe as a means to produce a desired event in company operations.

THIS is why airline pilot unions have worked so hard to push for advancements in safety. Left to their own devices, a struggling airline management group will clearly not hesitate to do unscrupulous and potentially dangerous things.

I flew for Colgan Air. Given the fact that I've seen many a Colgan airplane return from a FFoD check for maintenance, even something minor (but obviously required) this can't possibly be a realistic expectation of the company.

Translation? You're expected, now more than ever, to 'overlook things' and deal with them 'later', i.e., when it is more money-practical for the company.

This is a HIGHLY serious issue- I strongly suggest anyone flying for Colgan Air THINK TWICE before they cut a corner for the sake of the company. If Colgan Air is this willing to blur the line between safe and unsafe, it seems highly unlikely that they would be willing to defend a pilot at their expense in the event of an accident or enforcement action.

My deepest sympathies for Colgan Air pilots. May you get relief of union protection or a better job opportunity soon.

THis isn't a serious safety issue, it's just a pay issue. Runups are still completed the exact same way PDT and Mesaba does them. IF it fails, bring it back to the gate. Problem solved. Get about 15 gate returns in one morning and the pay problem will be solved soon also.

[UPSpilot]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Wait....wha? FFoD items eliminated? Is that even LEGAL?


"Okay, let's turn the radar on.....crap, it doesn't work. Woulda been nice to know that before we left. I guess it's a good thing we got rid of that FFoD check stuff...."

Unless your specific aircraft operating manual requires it. We have no FFoD items that are checked specifically. We do the same preflight regardless of whether it's the first or tenth flight of the day (actually, I'm lucky to fly ten legs in an entire pairing ).

[ljg]

So the lines are 15 mins behind off the bat now right?

[dingo222]

Originally Posted by ljg

So the lines are 15 mins behind off the bat now right?

15 min for pay, the rest remains the same.

More about what I commented to Firebird, I don't think this is per-se a safety related issue. I do agree that this is pilot pushing, and secondhand, or through the transitive property or whatever, it could lead to some issues down the line. THese are things that unions could fix, and hopefully will fix in the near term.

I think our biggest short term issue is the mx cancellation pay issue. THis is going to put a huge strain on the captains to do the right thing. The captain will have 2 choices and they both suck: write up the airplane that could result in a cancellation and the crew doesn't get paid, or 2. fly a broken airplane and hand it off to another crew.

THis policy is going to be out biggest safety related issue in the near term and will probably get somebody violated. The worse part is, even if we get a union on property this summer, our current work rules become our contract including no pay for mx cancellations. There are a few do gooders out there that will keep the rig moving, but i hope most will take the pay hit and do the right thing when the time comes. It's not an everyday thing for most crews, but it will face most crews eventually.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by dingo222

THis isn't a serious safety issue, it's just a pay issue. Runups are still completed the exact same way PDT and Mesaba does them. IF it fails, bring it back to the gate. Problem solved. Get about 15 gate returns in one morning and the pay problem will be solved soon also.

You're probably right.. but knowing Pinnacle/Colgan management, I hesitate to say that this is the end of this.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by dingo222

15 min for pay, the rest remains the same.

More about what I commented to Firebird, I don't think this is per-se a safety related issue. I do agree that this is pilot pushing, and secondhand, or through the transitive property or whatever, it could lead to some issues down the line. THese are things that unions could fix, and hopefully will fix in the near term.

I think our biggest short term issue is the mx cancellation pay issue. THis is going to put a huge strain on the captains to do the right thing. The captain will have 2 choices and they both suck: write up the airplane that could result in a cancellation and the crew doesn't get paid, or 2. fly a broken airplane and hand it off to another crew.

THis policy is going to be out biggest safety related issue in the near term and will probably get somebody violated. The worse part is, even if we get a union on property this summer, our current work rules become our contract including no pay for mx cancellations. There are a few do gooders out there that will keep the rig moving, but i hope most will take the pay hit and do the right thing when the time comes. It's not an everyday thing for most crews, but it will face most crews eventually.

Now that I read that again, I reaffirm my stance.

By taking away things like mx cancellation pay at an outfit where most are just scratching to get by financially, wouldn't you agree that this encourages a 'make it go' mentality?

It's essentially a hedge to make captains reluctant to exercise PIC authority regarding the legality of the flight, correct? The laws regarding maintenance and aircraft function are 'written in blood'- that means somebody died, and the FAA (or its predecessor) decided that in the interest of safety, specific rules should exist.

It's designed to undercut the payrolls, agreed, but the ultimate impact is that it increases the possibility of someone choosing the less safe option because the company is holding their bread and butter hostage.

It is, at the very least, one of those 'slippery slope' issues.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

All that stuff combined sounds like a pretty big deal to me. You're right though. Until they touch somebody's bonus there probably won't be a response.

Given the management that's running the show, even if it DOES touch their bonuses, they won't budge out of ego. I'm pretty sure no one on the PCL side is gonna get a performance bonus anytime soon. What happens? We get threatening letters about how we're gonna lose flying b/c of our performance. We get a nice little incentive program to keep people from calling in sick. We call it the "fly sick program" since it more or less encourages people to come to work sick in exchange for an iPod (if they're one of the lucky ones in the drawing). What's changed operationally? Nothing. For some reason, they seem to think threats and empty incentives are gonna solve all the issues and we'll magically perform well. Buying parts for broken airplanes or raising morale doesn't figure into the equation since it costs too much money. But they'll buy a vending machine with fruit in it for the flight crews to grab something between flights. Just don't be too late, and make sure one person grabs food for all three crew members. I can't make that stuff up. That last one is the new meal policy if you're running late.

And if Colgan wants you guys doing this stuff on the taxi out, I might drop a dime on the FAA for that one. I figure they'd rather have you guys looking outside the flight deck while taxiing instead of running tests.....

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

And if Colgan wants you guys doing this stuff on the taxi out, I might drop a dime on the FAA for that one. I figure they'd rather have you guys looking outside the flight deck while taxiing instead of running tests.....

Any AD compliance issues that need to be raised?

[wick81]

First of all, the safety checks are being complied with, it is exactly how Mesaba does it.

Second of all, they have not taken the pay credit away yet. I know that it is probably in the future, but at least for now we still have a runup credit in the morning.

Thirdly, they have not taken away our MX Cancellation pay yet. Again I know that this to, is likely in the future... but I would prefer to not get to excited until these things actually happen. I don't run well on rumors, I need facts.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

And if Colgan wants you guys doing this stuff on the taxi out, I might drop a dime on the FAA for that one. I figure they'd rather have you guys looking outside the flight deck while taxiing instead of running tests.....

Or taxi reeeeeally reeeeeeally slow...

[dingo222]

Originally Posted by wick81

First of all, the safety checks are being complied with, it is exactly how Mesaba does it.

Second of all, they have not taken the pay credit away yet. I know that it is probably in the future, but at least for now we still have a runup credit in the morning.

Thirdly, they have not taken away our MX Cancellation pay yet. Again I know that this to, is likely in the future... but I would prefer to not get to excited until these things actually happen. I don't run well on rumors, I need facts.

MX cancellation pay ends Apr 15th per the memo for all fleet types.

[dingo222]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

Now that I read that again, I reaffirm my stance.

By taking away things like mx cancellation pay at an outfit where most are just scratching to get by financially, wouldn't you agree that this encourages a 'make it go' mentality?

It's essentially a hedge to make captains reluctant to exercise PIC authority regarding the legality of the flight, correct? The laws regarding maintenance and aircraft function are 'written in blood'- that means somebody died, and the FAA (or its predecessor) decided that in the interest of safety, specific rules should exist.

It's designed to undercut the payrolls, agreed, but the ultimate impact is that it increases the possibility of someone choosing the less safe option because the company is holding their bread and butter hostage.

It is, at the very least, one of those 'slippery slope' issues.

Thats exactly what I meant. They will use our pay as leverage to make sure the flight goes. I wouldn't even know how that's legal. It's sort of like withholding pay from a whistleblower.