Guns in the Cockpit

[Scandinavian13]

As you've all heard, there was an unintentional discarge of a firearm on a flight the other day (Article). When I was browsing around MSN's homepage after signing out of Hotmail, I saw this text:

"Last week on a US Airways flight, a gun went off in the cockpit. Did you know that your captain might be carrying a semiautomatic?

Thankfully, the plane landed safely, but searchers still wanted answers. How many pilots currently carry guns? Tack on the recent court decision against passengers' rights, and it's no wonder the friendly skies look a little less so."

The make it seem like we as pilots, who are required to be trained if we want to carry a firearm on board, are some ridiculous hazard to everyday air travel.

The next comment about the Passenger Bill of Rights decision is just ignorant. It's not like the airlines struck it down (sure, some disagreed with it). It's the courts who stuck it down because it has no legal standing. PM me if you don't understand why and you want an explanation. I'll spare this thread from the rant...

Basically, my question is this:
What do you all think about guns in the cockpit?
That's the poll.

As for the other comments, what do you all think about the reaction of the media to the most recent issue?

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

I think that it is dumb because you hav bullet proof doors, camera's, etc, what more do you need? I saw a pic of the plane and it looked as if the bullet pierced a hole through the plane, the pilot is lucky this did not happen at high altitude or that would have been decompression. Also what if one of the pilot has a nervous breakdown like that Continental flight in Ireland a month ago, or Fedex Flight 705? It makes the CREW endangered and you can still have unfortunet things happen. Point blank there is no use, not to mention majority of pilots are not armed anyway. I mean come on does Doug wield a FO-Fo like fiddy?

[kfour]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

I saw a pic of the plane and it looked as if the bullet pierced a hole through the plane, the pilot is lucky this did not happen at high altitude or that would have been decompression.

...

[Speed Pilot]

I'm an avid "gun nut". I compete in IDPA(tactical pistol competition) matches here in Boise. I have a CCW permit and carry regularly. However unless you practice with your firearm on a regular basis you're more of a danger to everyone else on board than you are to the person you would be trying to defend yourself against.

I don't know what kind of proficiency an FFDO is required to maintain but if they aren't going out and practicing with their duty firearm at LEAST once a week they're probably more likely going to shoot themsleves or a passenger before they shoot a bad guy.

Not saying the FFDO program is a bad idea just that unless they stay proficient it's a waste of time and money for them to get certified to feel "safe". For those of you that are FFDO's and stay proficient, Way to go and keep up the good work. Everyone else get to a range and practice, practice, practice. Unless you've done the drills enough to have made them muscle memory, just like Basic Attitude Instrument Flying, they will let you down when the heat is turned up.

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by kfour

...

Give him a break. He's 16 and has barely flown. (Correct me if I'm wrong JA, I'm just going by your profile).

I don't see any problem with guns in the cockpit under controlled programs such as FFDO. Will I carry one someday under that program?...probably not, but not because I think there's anything wrong with it. To me personally it's not worth the hassle of going though the certification, but if other pilots want to or feel it's necessary, more power to them. That's what freedom is all about!

[BobDDuck]

Here's the 411 yo...

The people that actually understand the program and know the specifics won't talk about it.

The people that don't know anything about it are going to do a lot of talking about it.

Draw your own conclusions.

[ready2fly]

Here's my $0.02:

Before I bacame an airline pilot, I was deadset against guns in the cockpit.

Now, I'm all for it. Even looking into the FFDO program.

As for why - see BobDucks response above.

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Originally Posted by PanJet

Give him a break. He's 16 and has barely flown. (Correct me if I'm wrong JA, I'm just going by your profile).

I don't see any problem with guns in the cockpit under controlled programs such as FFDO. Will I carry one someday under that program?...probably not, but not because I think there's anything wrong with it. To me personally it's not worth the hassle of going though the certification, but if other pilots want to or feel it's necessary, more power to them. That's what freedom is all about!

Your correct, I am just stating my opinion, I mean would you go put bullet proof window's on your car unless you live in a place like Camden?
I am just saying that if there is no serious threat then why carry guns? Don't get me wrong I am an avid gun fan too, I have a couple, but on a plane is a different story, much less a regional, I mean come on

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

Your correct, I am just stating my opinion, I mean would you go put bullet proof window's on your car unless you live in a place like Camden?
I am just saying that if there is no serious threat then why carry guns? Don't get me wrong I am an avid gun fan too, I have a couple, but on a plane is a different story, much less a regional, I mean come on

1. A bullet hole is not going to make the plane have a rapid depressurization.

2. Our regional jet carries up to 19,000 lbs of Jet A (average is anywhere between 6000 and 15,000 lbs) - and 75 people (with the crew included and one jumpseater). Imagine what kind of damage that could do.

3. The doors are a deterrent, and is not fool-proof. There are certain situations (say, when a pilot has to head to the lav) that the door can be breached in a little as 3 - that's THREE - seconds.

Believe me - you'll understand one day.

Not ripping on you, my friend. Just trying to educate you in a very short period of time.

R2F

[JA Yawd Bwoy]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

1. A bullet hole is not going to make the plane have a rapid depressurization.

2. Our regional jet carries up to 19,000 lbs of Jet A (average is anywhere between 6000 and 15,000 lbs) - and 75 people (with the crew included and one jumpseater). Imagine what kind of damage that could do.

3. The doors are a deterrent, and is not fool-proof. There are certain situations (say, when a pilot has to head to the lav) that the door can be breached in a little as 3 - that's THREE - seconds.

Believe me - you'll understand one day.

Not ripping on you, my friend. Just trying to educate you in a very short period of time.

R2F

No offence taken. That is why I am here right? to learn. That is what I always thought though. What I would like to learn from those who voted yes is, what are the benefits of carrying guns on the plane, besides terrorist?

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

what are the benefits of carrying guns on the plane, besides terrorist?

Because ......sometimes....that other pilot can REALLY piss you off!!















KIDDING!!!

Terrosism is pretty much it.

[gtpilot]

Funny, I hadn't even seen the answers and thought, 'I'm all for it!'

It does make for interesting dynamics when the FO is the FFDO and the CA is not. Observed a crew like this while on the jump seat - the FO seemed more in charge than the CA.

BTW, the door is only bullet proof if there is a jump seater!

[kellwolf]

Physics says that someone that manages to bust down the flight deck door is more than likely gonna be able to generate enough leverage while standing vs a seated pilot to remove said firearm.

Do I think it's necessarily a BAD idea? Not in the correctly trained hands. Do I think it's actually a deterrent? Probably not any more than anything else that's been done since 9/11.

[ready2fly]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Physics says that someone that manages to bust down the flight deck door is more than likely gonna be able to generate enough leverage while standing vs a seated pilot to remove said firearm.

Do I think it's necessarily a BAD idea? Not in the correctly trained hands. Do I think it's actually a deterrent? Probably not any more than anything else that's been done since 9/11.

No argument here.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by JA Yawd Bwoy

No offence taken. That is why I am here right? to learn. That is what I always thought though. What I would like to learn from those who voted yes is, what are the benefits of carrying guns on the plane, besides terrorist?

Because chicks dig guns man! Isn't that why you are getting into this industry?

Also the plane can handle small holes. Outflow valves constantly regulate the pressure inside the plane. As their name implies, they let the air flow out. The more bullet holes the less often the outflow valves will open because the bullet holes will be doing their jobs and releasing the pressure for them.
"Them Bullet holes took our JAWBS!" said the outflow valves...

Alright I need to get some sleep...

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by ready2fly

Because ......sometimes....that other pilot can REALLY piss you off!!


KIDDING!!!

Terrosism is pretty much it.

"Cincy Ops I am an FFDO and there is some guy on the ramp that has his ID in a plastic shield. Can I shoot him?"

OPs: "Uh stand by"

[PetrolBurner]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Physics says that someone that manages to bust down the flight deck door is more than likely gonna be able to generate enough leverage while standing vs a seated pilot to remove said firearm.

More often than not the commotion of trying to break open the door would be overheard by the FFDO, giving them a few seconds or more to turn and draw.

I think mostly it's mostly because chicks dig guys in uniform carrying guns! I'd take any excuse to go the range more regularly. Take a tax deduction on 50 rounds a week!

[newty]

I'm all for it if for no other reason than it will get me through security, lickity split oh yeah and it would make me feel cool!

[SoCalAprch]

Im a pilot. I stop terrorisomers with my gun.

[MDPilot]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Here's the 411 yo...

The people that actually understand the program and know the specifics won't talk about it.

The people that don't know anything about it are going to do a lot of talking about it.

Draw your own conclusions.

I see a lot of talking going on.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by PetrolBurner

More often than not the commotion of trying to break open the door would be overheard by the FFDO, giving them a few seconds or more to turn and draw.

I wanna see that in a CRJ flight deck. It's pretty much comical just getting into the seat, much less having Wyatt Earp trying to mow down a bad guy.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by MDPilot

I see a lot of talking going on.

I stand by my statement. Most of the people talking don't know anything about the program specifics.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

I stand by my statement. Most of the people talking don't know anything about the program specifics.

I'll be the first to tell ya I don't know much about the program specifics. But I stand by what I said. It's just a matter of logistics, physics and space in the flight deck.

[PGT]

I voted not the brightest idea....yes it could be useful but I say not everyone gets one.

Then again I'm a college student with only a PPL so what do I know?

[WAFlyBoy]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

I wanna see that in a CRJ flight deck. It's pretty much comical just getting into the seat, much less having Wyatt Earp trying to mow down a bad guy.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!