Hey, all you old-timers! RETIRE ALREADY!

[Firebird2XC]

A while back I decided to critique every demographic of aviation pundits as I found suitable inspiration. Specifically, Velocipede's demographic was to be next. Keep in mind, these are just my opinions based upon the past year's observations. Demands for facts, statistics,or evidence will be met with Knock-Knock Jokes and naughty limericks (about you). Ladies and Gentlemen- ready your flamethrowers, and- Enjoy!

That's right, I said it! All you crusty old timers rotting your way towards retirement over there in the left seat. Hurry up and retire- you've had your moment in the sun. You're clogging up the seniority list for the rest of us.

Yeah, you've weathered the ups and downs over the years. So will we! Given time everybody sees all things. Us up and comers listen and learn. We make mistakes- but then again, so did you. You continue to do so, from time to time, as well.

Let's go over a few of those!

First off, your ranting about who's ruining the profession:

Your take is that the "Ipod wearing, backpack-toting, spikey-haired FOs" coming up through the ranks are the ones undermining your efforts to somehow singlehandedly right the wrongs done to pilot groups in the industry. REALLY?

It was the old hands at the major airlines, perched at the pinnacle of the profession, that said "Hell no, we won't fly those little jets!" You passed on the chance to grow with the industry and sidestepped anything you thought might result in "too low of a payscale". Nice move! Now, when the narrowbody 'mainline' aircraft used to be the starting point for 121 air carriers, we're swamped with so-called 'Regional Airlines'. While you poke fun and call names (Replacement Jets, anyone?) in reality you have nobody to blame but yourself.

You were given the option, and somehow managed to turn around and screw EVERYBODY in the process.

Everybody? Yep. By creating a new sub-class of airlines, we've created new leverage for the mainline management groups to whipsaw us against each other. Now, it doesn't matter if you're union or non-union. You might have two non-union carriers flying contracts for the same major- and both trying to undercut the other. We've got a whipsaw no matter what we do.

Sitting there, raving about how the 'new guys' working our way up are 'driving down' pay doesn't change the fact that if the 'Replacement Jet' Airlines hadn't been created there wouldn't be a situation like that in the first place. Now, the entry level airline jobs pay a fraction of what they used to.

TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE-

You 'flow back' into the regionals. Using your mainline pilot group influence, when things turn bad in the industry, you go fishing for jobs back in the regionals. We've become your fall back job. So when you flood back into a regional and flush the list into stagnation, it puts the lower seniority pilots out on the street. Nice! Even if it doesn't furlow anybody, now we have a bunch of pilots that 'negotiatied' entry onto the same seniority list FROM THE TOP and did it at the top of the pay scale too. There goes our industry competitive labor costs. Better cut pilots wages again... too bad for the FOs. Then, when things go better still and the regionals ask to be thrown a bone like preferential hiring, you do everything you can to pull the rope up behind you.

But it doesn't stop there!

You sit fat and happy at the top of the list, and your moment to go back to flying the 'real' jets at the 'real' airline finally comes. You drag your feet! You don't want to go back to the bottom of the seniority list and sit reserve, and you don't want to go to the bottom of the pay scale. No way, buster! You'd rather 'decline' to go back where you were in the first place and retire at the regional airline. In doing so, those of us who are still working our way up in the first place are further slowed in our progress up the seniority list. Hey, THANKS, PAL!

Oh, and don't forget-

THE 'PAY FOR JOBS' CROWD IS RUINING THE INDUSTRY!

How ironic. Irony you say? How could there possibly be irony in that statement? Simple!

In the days gone by, there were no regional airlines. You either slugged it out for years do whatever flying you could, or you took the ORIGINAL 'Jet Course'- the U.S. Military! You signed on for six or seven years. Maybe you went to a service academy! After a six figure PAID EDUCATION, you went on to receive a SEVEN FIGURE training program in the U.S. Military. It's possible ALL of your flight time has been in turbine powered airplanes. Gee, that's interesting. So where did this money come from?

TAX PAYERS. That's right- you were a 'pay for training' op, too. But somebody else paid for it. But wait- that sort of deal must involve some sort of committment, right? Right. Six or seven years for some, 18 to 20 for others.

So after getting paid a fat salary (plus benefits, etc) to log time for a few years, you side-stepped, easy as you please, into the major airlines. How'd you get the time to do that in so few years? I've personally seen the 'fat pencil' too many times to count. Once around that traffic pattern? Why, log that as a 1.5! Nevermind the money you just wasted in associated operating costs. Fraud gets you there faster!

"That's not fair," you say. What about the guys that did 20 years! They made it a career! They certainly did. Those are the guys that flooded the civilian helicopter market and didn't care how much they made because of their pensions. They're the same guys that go to work for an airline and don't worry what they make today or tomorrow- they're just doing it FOR FUN. Well, gee, good for them. While you fly as few possible hours every month and drop every trip you can, there's a guy or gal coming up that WOULD KILL for your seat. People coming up the ranks paid your way, every step of the way before that big shiny airline gig, and then you clog up the ranks and ride out a second career to retirement. Swell!

This goes for the pilots with other careers that make 'WAY more money than I do here'. You show up and fly minimum time and squeeze the payroll and the seniority list for all its worth and then leave those of us who have this job as a primary profession with whatever's left. THANKS!

Yes, we're grateful for the military service you provided us with, guys. Alot of us know the sacrifice. Alot of us were former military, too. We were the ones that supported your mile-high antics, praying you'd misplace your 'extra fat pencil'. Some of us were the ones actually out in those third world combat zones, instead of just flying in and out again from some cushy base elsewhere while claiming a month's worth of combat tax exemption. Knocking your Annapolis or West Point ring on the desk doesn't get you much credence with us. Gratitude- and your resulting sense of entitlement, only goes so far.

It doesn't get really good until you flow back, and take up a regional seat, too.

Then there's the whole "the new FOs appearance is bringing us all down!"

Okay. For every FO I've seen with a rumpled shirt or spikey hair, I've seen some corpulent, crumpled, cardiac-waiting-to-happen captain. Nothing inspires confidence like some aging greybeard that's wheezing like he's about to die after walking down the jetway. Nice! Some of your cockpit habits are a bit unprofessional, too. We've all taken turns reading the paper while the other guy minded the store, sure. That's one thing. Looking up from dialing in some setting and seeing you nodding off on the second leg of the day- that's inspiring.

I've learned that if I flip my intercom switch to the 'hot' position intermittently, I can train some captains to WAKE UP ON CUE.

Neat, huh?

Ahhh yes- the union thumping. Almost forgot that one. For every "I bleed ALPA" guy I've met I've met somebody with the "What's ALPA done for me lately?" attitude. Yep- we're inheriting every mistake ever made. That "don't you dare forget the struggles of those before you" tirade is getting a bit worn, too. Most of you, while old, are still young enough that you inherited the bulk of the efforts of the past, too. You just coasted on in during the boom years and rode it out. When the strike vote came down, you just went and took a few weeks off. Let the new kids walk the picket line! I'm pro-union, sure, but it's time to consider an overhaul, seriously. Only now, when it's realized that outsourcing to the regionals YOUR actions enabled are causing YOU problems are the unions taking action to seriously protect the pilots at that level.

Oh wait, I forgot- half of you wound up at that level. Self interest strikes again.

Last but not least, let's not forget one of my personal favorites- standardization. Ah, yes, standardization, that safety feature where procedures are always the same to reduce workload and increase situational awareness.

Forget that! I've taken to asking up front- "okay, the new change says X... but how have YOU been doing it the past umpteen years?"



Obviously, the image I'm depicting does not represent all captains I've worked with or heard about. It's unfortunate, but their actions are far more memorable than those captains whose actions were befitting their rank, station, and tenure.

In other words, all you captains, stop and consider cleaning your OWN house before you so eagerly look for problems elsewhere.

(I will now don my asbestos suit and await the flaming. I brought marshmellows! - Charlie)

[Doug Taylor]

If it takes more than four paragraphs...

[zmiller4]

Bienvenidos a American Eagle!!

Not always fun, no?

In my class at Beagle there were two of the nicest guys I've ever met. They were both AA furloughees. Although both were eligible for the flowback CA slots, neither took it because they wanted to do things the "right way". They had gone through the full interview with astronaut physical at Eagle and came on at $23/hr and a 7yr upgrade. Both did it because they liked airline flying and didn't want to step on anyone's toes while waiting for the recall. They helped us out tremendously in ground school and with life advice in general. Remember, there's folks like that out there too.

[mastermags]

Cute... how long have you been in the industry so far?

This reminds me of something I said to my Grandfather a long time ago when I was having trouble coming up for cash for flight lessons. I told him, "at least the military paid for your flight training." His response was "yeah, but I paid it back when the red dots started flying past my head..."

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by zmiller4

Bienvenidos a American Eagle!!

Not always fun, no?

In my class at Beagle there were two of the nicest guys I've ever met. They were both AA furloughees. Although both were eligible for the flowback CA slots, neither took it because they wanted to do things the "right way". They had gone through the full interview with astronaut physical at Eagle and came on at $23/hr and a 7yr upgrade. Both did it because they liked airline flying and didn't want to step on anyone's toes while waiting for the recall. They helped us out tremendously in ground school and with life advice in general. Remember, there's folks like that out there too.

It's not all a rant about Eagle. It was the industry in general.

You'll note towards the end, I said I wasn't characterizing the captain population as a whole. I've flown with some really awesome captain, both at Eagle and elsewhere, young and old, that were awesome.

I'm just picking on the surly old curmudgeons, industry wide, that want to snarl at anybody just because they think they can.

Know what I mean?

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by mastermags

Cute... how long have you been in the industry so far?

This reminds me of something I said to my Grandfather a long time ago when I was having trouble coming up for cash for flight lessons. I told him, "at least the military paid for your flight training." His response was "yeah, but I paid it back when the red dots started flying past my head..."

Reds dots flew by my head a few times, too.

Not everybody in the military actually sees harm's way. There are plenty out there that soaked up all the peacetime goodies and split. Those are the ones I'm picking on.

[Airdale]

Wow. I have no comment. Popcorn anyone?

[aloft]

What was the point again?

[higney85]

Originally Posted by aloft

What was the point again?

I love lamp


I think Firebird had a rough trip with a super senior old guy on his second divorce who was only standard by his own book (which he misplaced years ago). Life happens..... Go grab a beer, hang with the guys, spread some loving with a woman, and enjoy your days off.. It will all be OK!

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by higney85

I think Firebird had a rough trip with a super senior old guy on his second divorce who was only standard by his own book (which he misplaced years ago). Life happens..... Go grab a beer, hang with the guys, spread some loving with a woman, and enjoy your days off.. It will all be OK!

I think I flew with that guy, too!


The one that kinda burns me up is SWA offering FO class dates to retired CAs. I guess from a training standpoint, you know they're more than likely not gonna wash out, but come on! Give the new blood a chance.....

[Cptnchia]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

A while back I decided to critique every demographic of aviation pundits as I found suitable inspiration. Specifically, Velocipede's demographic was to be next.

Oh! Oh! Do my demographic next!

[Velocipede]

Hey, I paid my dues to get here. 11.5 years of active duty. More in the Reserves. Now, after almost 2 decades of wrenching, yanking I can just barely stay off reserve.

Sorry if you feel you are "put upon" by us old farts. You're just going to have to pay some of your own dues...5 more years of them.

[casey]

you would have more credibility if you weren't the guy boasting about making a lateral move to eagle and bragging about your 36 mo upgrade and flowthrough.

[SoCalAprch]

HAHA that was awesome. In a drunken college type of way. Kudos for speaking your mind. I don't agree but Im all for the pissed off rant every now and then.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by Cptnchia

Oh! Oh! Do my demographic next!

For whom the bell tolls!

Funny how I was an old fart on the MD-88/90 now I'm a young buck on the ER. But I'm sure I'll be "boy captain" one of these days.

Aww, the lingo.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

If it takes more than four paragraphs...

.... it's an article.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Cptnchia

Oh! Oh! Do my demographic next!

Uh, what IS your demographic?

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by casey

you would have more credibility if you weren't the guy boasting about making a lateral move to eagle and bragging about your 36 mo upgrade and flowthrough.

If you think this was solely about Eagle, you're wrong.

I've seen this elsewhere, too.

As for the upgrade stuff- "Wait for it".

Hasn't been three years yet.

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Hey, I paid my dues to get here. 11.5 years of active duty. More in the Reserves. Now, after almost 2 decades of wrenching, yanking I can just barely stay off reserve.

Sorry if you feel you are "put upon" by us old farts. You're just going to have to pay some of your own dues...5 more years of them.

Naw, I'm mostly tired of watching the old guys just marking time.

I'm tired of of the new kids not doing anything about it, either.

How am I supposed to rabble-rouse to get the up and coming FOs to speak up for themselves if THEY'RE ALL TOO AFRAID?

I have to pay my dues, sure. I'm calling out the CAs that have paid their dues and now don't do anything with the position they've achieved.

You know, the ones that hold a really senior line and then drop it all.

You know, I expected a little more of a response out of you. Flame thrower out of gas?

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

HAHA that was awesome. In a drunken college type of way. Kudos for speaking your mind. I don't agree but Im all for the pissed off rant every now and then.

Seniority doesn't mean total authoritarianism, after all.

A little FO chest thumping is good for the group, now and then.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

Naw, I'm mostly tired of watching the old guys just marking time.

I'm tired of of the new kids not doing anything about it, either.

What are you or any other F/O going to do about it? Its a seniority system. The only ones who you're upsetting is yourself. Hey, if you don't want to fly with me, put me on your no-fly list. Its no skin off my nose.

How am I supposed to rabble-rouse to get the up and coming FOs to speak up for themselves if THEY'RE ALL TOO AFRAID?

Again, what are they (or you) going to do? Nothing.

I have to pay my dues, sure. I'm calling out the CAs that have paid their dues and now don't do anything with the position they've achieved.

You know, the ones that hold a really senior line and then drop it all.

Well, that's their right, a right accrued through seniority. When you have some, you'll understand.

You know, I expected a little more of a response out of you. Flame thrower out of gas?

Plenty of gas, slick. But, remember, I was once in your place, so I understand your frustration. Its frustrating seeing senior pilots picking up additional flying at time and a half, reducing the amount of trips available to be built into lines.

But, as long as they're doing it legally, within the contract, what do you really have to biatch about? And if you raise a big stink, what are you going to do when YOU'RE senior enough to do the same thing? If YOU pick up additional flying, doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

Getting wrapped around the axle about how OTHERS benefit from seniority just makes you look jealous and childish. You didn't do it in the military. Why are you doing it now?

[Firebird2XC]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

What are you or any other F/O going to do about it? Its a seniority system. The only ones who you're upsetting is yourself. Hey, if you don't want to fly with me, put me on your no-fly list. Its no skin off my nose.



Again, what are they (or you) going to do? Nothing.



Well, that's their right, a right accrued through seniority. When you have some, you'll understand.



Plenty of gas, slick. But, remember, I was once in your place, so I understand your frustration. Its frustrating seeing senior pilots picking up additional flying at time and a half, reducing the amount of trips available to be built into lines.

But, as long as they're doing it legally, within the contract, what do you really have to biatch about? And if you raise a big stink, what are you going to do when YOU'RE senior enough to do the same thing? If YOU pick up additional flying, doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

Getting wrapped around the axle about how OTHERS benefit from seniority just makes you look jealous and childish. You didn't do it in the military. Why are you doing it now?

'Cause I said I would. Don't get me wrong- I'm not moaning about the Captains that make full use of their flying. I'm talking about the 'flying farmers' that don't really give a damn about the job- they're just sitting up there showing off their license at bars, taking up a spot at the top of the seniority list, and not actually doing any real amounts of flying.

In truth, I don't really think a whole lot of this applies to you.

>shrugs< I think the PFT thing kinda rings true though.

[sorrygottarunway]

For this week, I'm dyeing my hair gray and walking through IADs A terminal with an AARP magazine. I'm going to create a NEW demographic! The 23 year old going on 59, "stress of the industry made him that way" regional prop captain! Oh, and to Seggy-fy it a bit, I will have one swedish lady on my arm.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Firebird2XC

I'm talking about the 'flying farmers' that don't really give a damn about the job- they're just sitting up there showing off their license at bars, taking up a spot at the top of the seniority list, and not actually doing any real amounts of flying.

I thought the whole idea was to climb the ladder and get paid to NOT fly. You bid what is available, and if it gives you alot of home time, even the better.

[killbilly]

I'm pretty sure this was written tongue-in-cheek - at least, that's how I took it, and I thought it was pretty funny.