Newark Seven Departure

mikecweb · January 17th, 2008, 12:53

So I'm sure the Expressjet folks know all about this...we had the pleasure of visiting Newark last night because the hole was closed.
Anyways this departure procedure is the most poorly written text I've ever read. Commas and periods are in wrong places and we had to read it a good 4 or 5 times to get it right. The departure off of 4L is a joke.

Or maybe we are just dumb freight dawgs.

kellwolf · January 17th, 2008, 12:59

That page has entirely too little color.

I like my color coded charts for dummies.

surreal1221 · January 17th, 2008, 13:06

On my first read I wasn't too confused, until I actually read it how it was written.

So when do you turn to 060? Upon reaching the 4DME? But wait, it says climb heading 060, upon crossing 4DME ILS 4L (period). Turn left heading 290...

When do I turn heading 290? Bleh, the FAA isn't known for their great writing ability.

"Climb via heading 060. Crossing the 4DME ILS 4L, turn left heading 290."

Simple, why can't they do that.

mikecweb · January 17th, 2008, 13:10

Now try doing that at 3am.

jtrain609 · January 17th, 2008, 13:14

It makes sense to me, but I'll do it a few times a week and the Jeppesen version makes WAY more sense.

Depart 4L, make your turn to 060 as soon as possible (I think it's 100' on the 4's, though to be honest I'd have to check our specials. I know we don't turn before 200' on the 22's but I can't remember the exact procedure on the 4's right now), once you hit 4 DME off of the ILS 4R frequency turn left 290 and don't go any higher than 2,500'.

Now that's all well and good, but what really happens? I've found that you'll get a heading assigned to you if you call departure before 4nm, so it's really a lot simplier than it looks when you factor in ATC giving you headings around everybody and their brother in the area.

mikecweb · January 17th, 2008, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

It makes sense to me, but I'll do it a few times a week and the Jeppesen version makes WAY more sense.

No jepps for Starcheckers.

jtrain609 · January 17th, 2008, 13:19

Hey at least your company pays for your NOAA charts, we had to buy our own Jepps at Amflight!

KLB · January 17th, 2008, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Hey at least your company pays for your NOAA charts, we had to buy our own Jepps at Amflight!

Not anymore.

Alchemy · January 17th, 2008, 15:27

Bahhh, tis' simple.

22R just turn to 190 ASAP, at 2.3 DME off the localizer turn right to 220. I usually didn't even roll out on 220 before departure was giving us a new vector and higher altitude.

Also be sure to have your FMS set up or your radials dialed in for the expected intercept listed in the notes at the bottom. Even if you're RNAV equipped they will still expect you to intercept the radials sometimes rather than clearing you direct to a fix.

mikecweb · January 17th, 2008, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Bahhh, tis' simple.

22R just turn to 190 ASAP, at 2.3 DME off the localizer turn right to 220. I usually didn't even roll out on 220 before departure was giving us a new vector and higher altitude.

Also be sure to have your FMS set up or your radials dialed in for the expected intercept listed in the notes at the bottom. Even if you're RNAV equipped they will still expect you to intercept the radials sometimes rather than clearing you direct to a fix.

I'll get right on that.

My point wasn't the complexity of the procedure, a monkey could fly these procedures with or without your fancy FMS BS, it was the poor wording and ridiculous punctuation.

jtrain609 · January 17th, 2008, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecweb

I'll get right on that.

My point wasn't the complexity of the procedure, a monkey could fly these procedures with or without your fancy FMS BS, it was the poor wording and ridiculous punctuation.

And this is how we start pissing contests on here (I should know, I've probably started more than anybody else on these forums).

Yes, the wording is incredibly inaccurate, and all Eric was pointing out was that if you don't have green needles setup from the get go (which not everybody does for a handful of reasons) or if you don't have the radials plugged into the FMS you can find yourself in trouble fast.

wheelsup · January 17th, 2008, 18:14

Maybe you should submit a NASA form about how the use of grammer (that's for you CF, I know your reading, sorry that's the last time I promise) is horrible.

OldTownPilot · January 17th, 2008, 18:19

It's three in the morning, Turn right, turn left, don't hit anything. TEB is closed anyway, do whatever you want.

KLB · January 17th, 2008, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Yes, the wording is incredibly inaccurate, and all Eric was pointing out was that if you don't have green needles setup from the get go (which not everybody does for a handful of reasons) or if you don't have the radials plugged into the FMS you can find yourself in trouble fast.

Hey Train,

I thinking they don't have a FMS.

I might be wrong though.

jtrain609 · January 17th, 2008, 18:56

I'm quite well aware that Airnet Lear's don't have FMS's in them. My point was that Eric wasn't trying to be a ###### about the whole FMS thing when Mike spouted off about "FMS BS."

KLB · January 17th, 2008, 19:01

I'm just trying to keep the peace homie! This has been one of the nastiest JC weeks in a while. Furniture is all out of order and such...blood on the carpet. Just awful.

mikecweb · January 17th, 2008, 19:04

WOW.
Wasn't trying to start anything.

jtrain609 · January 17th, 2008, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLB

I'm just trying to keep the peace homie! This has been one of the nastiest JC weeks in a while. Furniture is all out of order and such...blood on the carpet. Just awful.

Me too bro.

kellwolf · January 17th, 2008, 23:17

LIDO > Jepp

RJs > freight dawgs

hot dogs > hamburgers

'Nuff said

jtrain609 · January 18th, 2008, 09:08

How do you feel about Brats?

Stinger · January 18th, 2008, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

How do you feel about Brats?

They suck.

Alchemy · January 18th, 2008, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecweb

I'll get right on that.

My point wasn't the complexity of the procedure, a monkey could fly these procedures with or without your fancy FMS BS, it was the poor wording and ridiculous punctuation.

My fault, I thought you were asking for help in understanding how to fly the procedure. I know you "freight dogs" need all the help you can get, especially the ones who went to Riddle

. I guess I wasn't familiar with the poor grammar since it's probably constructed differently in the Jepps.

Seggy · January 18th, 2008, 23:25

Eric, don't sugarcoat it at all.

The real issue is this...the original poster poster went to ERAU, the 'Harvard' of the Skies and can't read a freaking Departure Procedure.

surreal1221 · January 19th, 2008, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

They suck.

Lies!

mikecweb · January 19th, 2008, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seggy

Eric, don't sugarcoat it at all.

The real issue is this...the original poster poster went to ERAU, the 'Harvard' of the Skies and can't read a freaking Departure Procedure.

I own you!

January 17th, 2008, 12:53	#1
mikecweb Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KBOS Posts: 2,871	Newark Seven Departure So I'm sure the Expressjet folks know all about this...we had the pleasure of visiting Newark last night because the hole was closed. Anyways this departure procedure is the most poorly written text I've ever read. Commas and periods are in wrong places and we had to read it a good 4 or 5 times to get it right. The departure off of 4L is a joke. Or maybe we are just dumb freight dawgs. __________________ Why run a company when you can destroy it - George Gonzalez When three failed airlines on a resume just isn't enough.

January 17th, 2008, 12:59	#2
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,873	Re: Newark Seven Departure That page has entirely too little color. I like my color coded charts for dummies. __________________ "I'm The Doctor, by the way. Run for your life!"

January 17th, 2008, 13:06	#3
surreal1221 Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alpha Tango Lima Posts: 9,854	Re: Newark Seven Departure On my first read I wasn't too confused, until I actually read it how it was written. So when do you turn to 060? Upon reaching the 4DME? But wait, it says climb heading 060, upon crossing 4DME ILS 4L (period). Turn left heading 290... When do I turn heading 290? Bleh, the FAA isn't known for their great writing ability. "Climb via heading 060. Crossing the 4DME ILS 4L, turn left heading 290." Simple, why can't they do that. __________________ AGI.MEI.CFI.CFII.FO.CRJ2 \| Josh \| The TRoP \| Rmble On \| ALPA \| IVAW \| ACLU \|

January 17th, 2008, 13:10	#4
mikecweb Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KBOS Posts: 2,871	Re: Newark Seven Departure Now try doing that at 3am. __________________ Why run a company when you can destroy it - George Gonzalez When three failed airlines on a resume just isn't enough.

January 17th, 2008, 13:14	#5
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,358	Re: Newark Seven Departure It makes sense to me, but I'll do it a few times a week and the Jeppesen version makes WAY more sense. Depart 4L, make your turn to 060 as soon as possible (I think it's 100' on the 4's, though to be honest I'd have to check our specials. I know we don't turn before 200' on the 22's but I can't remember the exact procedure on the 4's right now), once you hit 4 DME off of the ILS 4R frequency turn left 290 and don't go any higher than 2,500'. Now that's all well and good, but what really happens? I've found that you'll get a heading assigned to you if you call departure before 4nm, so it's really a lot simplier than it looks when you factor in ATC giving you headings around everybody and their brother in the area. __________________

January 17th, 2008, 13:19	#7
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,358	Re: Newark Seven Departure Hey at least your company pays for your NOAA charts, we had to buy our own Jepps at Amflight! __________________

January 17th, 2008, 15:27	#9
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,803	Re: Newark Seven Departure Bahhh, tis' simple. 22R just turn to 190 ASAP, at 2.3 DME off the localizer turn right to 220. I usually didn't even roll out on 220 before departure was giving us a new vector and higher altitude. Also be sure to have your FMS set up or your radials dialed in for the expected intercept listed in the notes at the bottom. Even if you're RNAV equipped they will still expect you to intercept the radials sometimes rather than clearing you direct to a fix.

January 17th, 2008, 18:14	#12
wheelsup Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _ Posts: 5,499	Re: Newark Seven Departure Maybe you should submit a NASA form about how the use of grammer (that's for you CF, I know your reading, sorry that's the last time I promise) is horrible. __________________ "It takes just as much time to be nice to someone as it does to be a jerk."

January 17th, 2008, 18:19	#13
OldTownPilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: BGR (Bangor, ME) Posts: 3,037 Blog Entries: 6	Re: Newark Seven Departure It's three in the morning, Turn right, turn left, don't hit anything. TEB is closed anyway, do whatever you want. __________________ As a wise man said, sumb!tch flew in, sumb!tch'll fly out. Ski Hard. Party Harder.

January 17th, 2008, 18:56	#15
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,358	Re: Newark Seven Departure I'm quite well aware that Airnet Lear's don't have FMS's in them. My point was that Eric wasn't trying to be a ###### about the whole FMS thing when Mike spouted off about "FMS BS." __________________

January 17th, 2008, 19:01	#16
KLB Old Skool Join Date: May 2005 Location: DFW Posts: 2,814	Re: Newark Seven Departure I'm just trying to keep the peace homie! This has been one of the nastiest JC weeks in a while. Furniture is all out of order and such...blood on the carpet. Just awful.

January 17th, 2008, 19:04	#17
mikecweb Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: KBOS Posts: 2,871	Re: Newark Seven Departure WOW. Wasn't trying to start anything. __________________ Why run a company when you can destroy it - George Gonzalez When three failed airlines on a resume just isn't enough.

January 17th, 2008, 23:17	#19
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,873	Re: Newark Seven Departure LIDO > Jepp RJs > freight dawgs hot dogs > hamburgers 'Nuff said __________________ "I'm The Doctor, by the way. Run for your life!"

January 18th, 2008, 09:08	#20
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,358	Re: Newark Seven Departure How do you feel about Brats? __________________

January 18th, 2008, 23:25	#23
Seggy Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,285	Re: Newark Seven Departure Eric, don't sugarcoat it at all. The real issue is this...the original poster poster went to ERAU, the 'Harvard' of the Skies and can't read a freaking Departure Procedure. __________________ www.alpa.org

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