Speaking of Q400's...

[Airdale]

I'm getting a tingling feeling in my pants when I look at photos of the Q - knowing that there is a very good chance I'll be flying this thing in the near future. Talk about a heck of an upgrade from the Beech.




http://us.airliners.net/photos/middle/6/6/4/1146466.jpg
http://us.airliners.net/photos/middle/2/9/2/1128292.jpg
http://us.airliners.net/photos/middle/0/5/6/0313650.jpg

[wheelsup]

No hotlinking allowed at airliners.net

[pilot4500]

You can't hotlink airliners.net, but it does look like a cool airplane.

[kellwolf]

Careful what ya wish for. Just hope you get a union over there so you're not flying those nice, shiny TPs for the same rate as the B1900 as an FO....

Or at least, a union would give you a better shot at higher rates than just taking what PCL corporate gives ya.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Careful what ya wish for. Just hope you get a union over there so you're not flying those nice, shiny TPs for the same rate as the B1900 as an FO....

Or at least, a union would give you a better shot at higher rates than just taking what PCL corporate gives ya.

Amen to that. I'm hoping the pay changes. We'll see. My gameplan is to see what happens with the Q. If I don't get the Q by April, I'm probably going to look elsewhere.

I know people swear against lateral moves in the Regionals or choosing an airline based on their bases, but commutting to Albany costs me over $400/month between gas and the paying for the crashpad. I can't imagine doing this commute much longer then a year only making $21/hr. Plus I want more time at home with my wife. I've got a 4 on 2 off schedule this month, 12 days off blocking 63hrs. Factor in commutting days, it doesn't leave me much time to take care of her. I won't do this to her for too long if I have an opportunity to hold EWR or PHL with another carrier.

But I think the Q will work out. Thats my hopes anyway. I would like to go to the Q, stay here and upgrade. Only time will tell!

[beechpilot]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Amen to that. I'm hoping the pay changes. We'll see. My gameplan is to see what happens with the Q. If I don't get the Q by April, I'm probably going to look elsewhere.

I know people swear against lateral moves in the Regionals or choosing an airline based on their bases, but commutting to Albany costs me over $400/month between gas and the paying for the crashpad. I can't imagine doing this commute much longer then a year only making $21/hr. Plus I want more time at home with my wife. I've got a 4 on 2 off schedule this month, 12 days off blocking 63hrs. Factor in commutting days, it doesn't leave me much time to take care of her. I won't do this to her for too long if I have an opportunity to hold EWR or PHL with another carrier.

But I think the Q will work out. Thats my hopes anyway. I would like to go to the Q, stay here and upgrade. Only time will tell!

Are they already beginning to staff it? I would think you could get it already being employed by Colgan and the fact there will need to be a whole bunch needed for the Q400. I imagine Colgan will be hiring like crazy to fill the voids in the SAAB 340 and the Beech.

[kellwolf]

Worse case scenario, you could come over to the dark, jet side and commute to DTW.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

No hotlinking allowed at airliners.net

no hotlink, but you can save it to your hd....

Attachment 3204

[surreal1221]

The Q is one nice bird. Sure it's a joy to fly. Then again, I'm sure the 1900 is a joy to fly as well.

Here is to you Colganites. . .to your future Q, and hopefully to a union.

[Cruise]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Amen to that. I'm hoping the pay changes. We'll see. My gameplan is to see what happens with the Q. If I don't get the Q by April, I'm probably going to look elsewhere.

I know people swear against lateral moves in the Regionals or choosing an airline based on their bases, but commutting to Albany costs me over $400/month between gas and the paying for the crashpad. I can't imagine doing this commute much longer then a year only making $21/hr. Plus I want more time at home with my wife. I've got a 4 on 2 off schedule this month, 12 days off blocking 63hrs. Factor in commutting days, it doesn't leave me much time to take care of her. I won't do this to her for too long if I have an opportunity to hold EWR or PHL with another carrier.

But I think the Q will work out. Thats my hopes anyway. I would like to go to the Q, stay here and upgrade. Only time will tell!

I'm kinda curious........did you have any clue where the Colgan bases were located prior to your applying? If you don't get the Q by April you're thinking of leaving???? WTFO?

First of all, the Q should be awarded by seniority, PERIOD. If you have the seniority to hold it, then great, you deserve it. But you Beech guys sliding by the Saab drivers who are more senior to you for a spot on the Q is total BS. Just because the company is phasing out your airframe doesn't mean you should get preferential bidding for the new bird. IMHO.

[GaTechKid]

Simmer down there cruise! He's talking about transitioning as an FO to the Q400.

[Rayflyoz]

the Q is a good plane we just got our 30th, but wait untill you have to start fixing them.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Cruise

I'm kinda curious........did you have any clue where the Colgan bases were located prior to your applying? If you don't get the Q by April you're thinking of leaving???? WTFO?

First of all, the Q should be awarded by seniority, PERIOD. If you have the seniority to hold it, then great, you deserve it. But you Beech guys sliding by the Saab drivers who are more senior to you for a spot on the Q is total BS. Just because the company is phasing out your airframe doesn't mean you should get preferential bidding for the new bird. IMHO.

Whoa there buddy. Chill.

Yes, I knew what bases Colgan had.

When I interviewed and accepted an offer to fly the Beech, I was not told that the Beech was getting phased out in a year or less. I was specifically told (the day they offered me the job!) that if I wanted to fly the Q400, then I should go to the Beech. I took the job with the presumption (based upon information specifically given to me after the interview and during indoc), that I would be on the Q out of EWR in a year.

Well low and behold a month after training I learn that the Beech will not be around long enough for me to upgrade on (this coming from check airman, as the company lacks essential communication with its pilots). Even more of a shock was the fact that I wouldn't even get a years time in the aircraft.

Enlight of this lack of information, or should I say communication - I feel as though I should be given a choice by the company as to which aircraft I would like to fly in place of the Beech. I don't want to go through initial/transition training at the same airline 3 friggin times! Thats absurd. If they were upfront with me at the interview and during the first week of training about the Beech phase out, I would have gladly taken the Saab as ABE is an hour drive away.

When I was hired, it was under a 1 year seat lock into the Beech. Well if the company removes the aircraft before that one year is up, what does that do to my contract? It negates it.

Based on the above - I believe the Beech pilots should be given a choice of aircraft, especially those that got hired within the year of the Beech phase out with no knowledge of it!

Now, in respect for those pilots above myself on the company seniority list - I believe the Q bids should go from top to bottom. And, if when the bid got to me there were no open positions, then I believe I should be entitled to terminate my contract with the airline early based on failure to inform me of an aircraft removal plan that was most certainly in place long before I was offered the position. Additionally, the 1 year training contract was for the Beech 1900 - NOT for the Saab and NOT for the Q. If the aircraft quits before I do in that 1 year, then how can a contract legally be enforced by sending me through training on another aircraft?

In no way do I feel "entitled" to the Q400 - but I do feel as though I deserve some sort of options as I was hired with a 1 year seatlock in the Beech while the company knowingly had in place a phase out plan for the aircraft.

This my friend, is soley hypothetical of course. The company has released no information what so ever on the status of the Beech phase out. It may well take over a year. Rumor that I continue to hear, is that by the end of this year, we may be down to our last Beech, if any remain.

When I has hired, I was specifically told by Chuck Colgan himself, that I would be able to transition from Beech FO to Q400 FO. I'm not transitioning from the Beech FO to Saab FO then to the Q400 FO/Captain. Not when I could upgrade faster somewhere else. If the company pulls my aircraft before my year is up and only gives me an option for the Saab, I'm heading somewhere else because you don't give potential employees false information.

If you read the memos, the Q bids are going in order of seniority. And I've been told by many that the company has a lacking interest within its FO's to go to the Q. So relax - I'm not trying to steal options away from those higher on seniority then myself. You guys above me deserve the option first. BUT, enlight of the information the company gave to me, I should either transition to the Q or be allow to leave short of the Beech training contract.

I can't do this commutting to outstation bases for more then a year - not with what Colgan pays!! I am literally paying to work here. Between the 3 hour drive each way and the $250 I spend a month on the crashpad its ridiculous. I took this job under the assumption from the company that I'd be based in EWR in a year. If that doesn't happen, I need to look elsewhere because you can only pay the minimum payment on your bills for so long. Maybe if they pay us as if this were a real job, I might tough out the commute.

Understand?

[kellwolf]

Sorry, Airdale. I gotta go with Cruise on this. You should be able to hold what your seniority is able to hold, NOT get a choice on what airframe you want b/c yours is getting phased out. Doesn't matter what the company told you or what rumors you hear. This is the airline industry, and the company will tell you exactly what you want to hear to get you to sign on and stay. If there's a one year seatlock, and your airframe is getting phased out, then you should be able to bid for another airframe. In the case of the Q, which the Saab guys are also eligible for, it should be strictly seniority based. People who's airframe is getting phased out should NOT get preference. There's a perfectly good airframe they could go into as well as vacated spots from the guys that leave that airframe going to the Q.

Be careful on the rumors from check airmen. The ones here (and at some other airlines I know) like to get rumors started to see how far they go. Heck, the 727 has been "getting phased out" at FedEx for a LOOOOOONG time now.

[Rocketman99]

<Grabs popcorn and soda> Hmm, this is getting good...

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Sorry, Airdale. I gotta go with Cruise on this. You should be able to hold what your seniority is able to hold, NOT get a choice on what airframe you want b/c yours is getting phased out. Doesn't matter what the company told you or what rumors you hear. This is the airline industry, and the company will tell you exactly what you want to hear to get you to sign on and stay. If there's a one year seatlock, and your airframe is getting phased out, then you should be able to bid for another airframe. In the case of the Q, which the Saab guys are also eligible for, it should be strictly seniority based. People who's airframe is getting phased out should NOT get preference. There's a perfectly good airframe they could go into as well as vacated spots from the guys that leave that airframe going to the Q.

Be careful on the rumors from check airmen. The ones here (and at some other airlines I know) like to get rumors started to see how far they go. Heck, the 727 has been "getting phased out" at FedEx for a LOOOOOONG time now.

Okay...re-read my original post about the Q400. I have never stated that I deserve the Q400 before anyone else or out of seniority!! Why the two of you are assuming this is beyond me. Find where I stated I deserve the Q400 and I'll shut up.

I'm not saying that I should be awarded the Q out of seniority order. But, if after the Beech phase out I don't get the Q, I'm leaving and should not have to honor any training contract that was for the Beech.

Its all speculation at this point. I took the job with the intent to upgrade on the Beech and transition to the Q400. Because the situation has changed, so has my gameplan. I'm not transitioning to the Saab as an FO. I can not "tough it out" for more then a year on this pay and having to commute to these outstation bases and pay for a crashpad. I can't afford it. Simple as that. Pay me more then $30k a year, and I might consider it. I knew that before I took the job here, and I decided to accept the job and fly here for at least a year and see what happens.
Why does Colgan lose so many FO's after one year? Pay!

If you're single, its not a big deal. I've got a house and a wife. I make $18k a year and spend $600 a month just on commutting! You need a big stack of cash to put up with that for more then a year. Additionally, the schedules suck for commutting. 4 on 3 off isn't quite bad, but 4 on 2 off and 5 on 2 off are ridiculous, especially when half those days you're flying the line and the other half you're sitting reserve. What kind of crap is that? Either you have a line - or your don't!? They expect you to spend your entire life either commutting or working and only pay you $18k a year? Its just not a situation that is easily dealt with for a long period of time. I do it, because I'm at the bottom, paying my dues and logging time. I'm not saying goodbye to my wife for another half a year for this.

Now before someone goes on another rant - I like it here at Colgan. I like the people, I like the flying and I like the Beech. Its a fun job flying into small airports with the little Beech rocket. NOBODY can predict the future or base their decisions in this industry with a "long term" outlook. I was offered an opportunity to work for a growing company and get valuable experience. I wasn't going to pass that up. You never know where that road may take you, I still don't know where the road will take me. I knew it would be rough at first, but thats no reason to shoot down an opportunity. As they say, don't knock it till ya try it.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I'm getting a tingling feeling in my pants when I look at photos of the Q - knowing that there is a very good chance I'll be flying this thing in the near future. Talk about a heck of an upgrade from the Beech.

I belive they have a cream for that.

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

I belive they have a cream for that.

LMAOROTF!!!!!!!



Anyway, I got a question. Once the Beech is phased out, would they hire right into the Q-4000, or make new hires go Saab, then Q? And not to get too ahead, but I would imagine the upgrade in the Q would be longer. Yes/No?

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by Airdale

I'm not saying that I should be awarded the Q out of seniority order. But, if after the Beech phase out I don't get the Q, I'm leaving and should not have to honor any training contract that was for the Beech.

Okay, if that's what you meant, then I've got no problem with that. That's not what you said, though. If you read it from our point of view it sounds like you think the company should give you precedence since your airframe was/is being eliminated. You mentioned the contract getting negated, and the very next sentence said something about the Beech pilots getting their choice of aircraft. Chalk that one up to the internet and confusing the message I guess.

I'm not transitioning to the Saab as an FO. I can not "tough it out" for more then a year on this pay and having to commute to these outstation bases and pay for a crashpad. I can't afford it. Simple as that.

Unfortunately, that's the world of aviation. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. I came to PCL because I didn't want to commute, and now in addition to that little gem, I'm looking at a relatively quick upgrade. That makes me the windshield. Mr Creepy left Mesa for Midway airlines b/c of the better pay, bigger equipment and growth opportunities. Then 9/11 happend, he was furloughed and shortly thereafter the company went under (and ironically had its cert purchased by Mesa). In that instance, he was the bug.

Thing is, you never know what's going to happen. Stay at Colgan, you might upgrade faster than you think. Go to another regional, and their growth might stagnate, lose a flying partner or have major labor troubles (think Comair). You just never know. 'Course you could get lucky like FlyChicaga did, too.

[Polarbear]

Originally Posted by Rayflyoz

the Q is a good plane we just got our 30th, but wait untill you have to start fixing them.

This plane assures I always have a job and that the makers of Advil always have a steady stream of income.

[Airdale]

Nevermind. After comparing our Q400 payscale to that of other comparable aircraft at other companies, why would anyone want to fly it here?

3rd yr, Captain Q400 at Colgan - $56/hr
3rd yr, Captain Xjet ERJ 145 - $64/hr
3rd yr, Captain Horizon Q400 - $69/hr

[n57flyguy]

Not too bad. Do you know what starting FO pay is?

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by Airdale

Nevermind. After comparing our Q400 payscale to that of other comparable aircraft at other companies, why would anyone want to fly it here?

3rd yr, Captain Q400 at Colgan - $56/hr
3rd yr, Captain Xjet ERJ 145 - $64/hr
3rd yr, Captain Horizon Q400 - $69/hr

Wow! I'm guessing Colgan mamgement went off of ASA's $57/hr rate on the ATR's. That's B.S. man! 70+ seat flying is the same no matter if it's a TP or an RJ.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by n57flyguy

Not too bad. Do you know what starting FO pay is?

Not too bad? Hardly.





I'd make out better going to Xjet next year. I could upgrade in the same amount of time or less and make considerably more. I bet if Colgan really wanted pilots to stay longer then a year, they'd improve the compensation and benefits. But I guess the bottom dollar is more important than keeping employees on board. Unless we can get serious changes to pay with ALPA on board, I'll be sending resumes in January. $18k-23k is not a respectable wage for flying a 76 seater.

[Champcar]

Your comparing a TP to a Jet and then to one of the highest paying regionals. Get what ya pay for I guess.