Uh, I don't like this. . .

[Cheechako]

Here's the chart: http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0704/01238ILDY25.PDF
And the airport:



If you looked in the dictionary under "one way runway," you'll see a picture of Kodiak rwy 25. It's got a 2500' mountain at the end of it. Land on 25, depart on 7.

So there we were on the ILS 25 into Kodiak. The captain was flying. We started the approach with only a 9 kt. tailwind (we're approved for 15 kts). When we called tower established inbound from the arc, the tailwind turned into 19 kts, then 22kts. Too much, change of plans, we'll do a circling maneuver to 36. Maintain 1000' until in a position to descend for landing. The captain broke off the localizer, left turn to downwind 36. He started configuring and descending. The wind really started pushing us into a very tight downwind. There's not a whole lot of room for a wide turn to final because of another vertical wall of granite. The captain was on speed, on descent, but from what I could see the turn to final was going to be too tight. We were going to overshoot and put ourselves way too close to the hills and buzz the Coast Guard hangars just on the other side of the runway. He was literally blind of it being on the left side of the airplane.

I spoke up. "I don't like it."
"What?"
"Sorry, but I don't like it."
"What do you mean?"
"I don't like it, it's too tight, let's get out of here"
"Okay...."

Go around power, hard left turn to stay out of the hills on that side, flaps 15, gear up. Out over the water to try it again.

We landed safely and taxied to the gate. This was our first leg of flying together, so I wasn't sure if the captain was going to thank me or rip me a new one for screwing up his approach. I'm still fairly new to the plane, and this was only my second time into Kodiak. The captain has been at Alaska for 12 years, 10 in the -200 and the last two in the -400. I'm sure he's been in and out of Kodiak a gozillion times. I was uncertain as to what his abilities were and what the airplane is actually capable of. All I know, is I was uncomfortable with the situation and wanted out.

He thanked me! He said this is what CRM is all about. He couldn't see exactly how close we were and appreciated my judgment and willingness to speak up.

I love my job!!!

[E_Dawg]

Hell I don't think I'd like walking around an airport like that!

[SkyKing]

This looks like a beautifull airport to land in.

[FlyChicaga]

Awesome!!!

See? It works!

[aloft]

Nice!

But next time, just tell the capt that the wx is below your personal minimums.

[Doug Taylor]

Good job bro!

Because if the whole thing didn't work out and you lived to go to the chief pilot's office, "Uhh, it wasn't my call, he's the captain!" ain't going to save the bacon.

And violations in the airline business always come in pairs.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

[OT]what's with the yellow "X" on Rwy 25??[/OT]

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Minnesota_Flyer

[OT]what's with the yellow "X" on Rwy 25??[/OT]

I was going to say to mark that rw was not useable for T/O's but I don't see a taxiway to get there anyway......

[Kristie]

WOW! that's a beautiful airport!!

[aloft]

Originally Posted by JEP

I was going to say to mark that rw was not useable for T/O's but I don't see a taxiway to get there anyway......

What, you never back-taxied on a runway before?

[JEP]

Originally Posted by aloft

What, you never back-taxied on a runway before?

Smart-A$$. Yes I have back-taxied before but it was in reference to the larger commercial operations. You know, the ones that Cheechako is flying in. I don't recall seeing too many 737's back taxi or any of the larger commercial planes for that matter. If you look at the layout you can see the tw to Rw7 and not 25.

BTW, how much room would a 737 require to do a complete 180 if they had to BACK-TAXI.....Geez?

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by JEP

BTW, how much room would a 737 require to do a complete 180 if they had to BACK-TAXI.....Geez?

I thought Boeing offered a caster wheel option on the 737 for this exact reason!

[FlyChicaga]

Originally Posted by JEP

BTW, how much room would a 737 require to do a complete 180 if they had to BACK-TAXI.....Geez?

65' minimum for an 180-degree turn in a B737-300/500/700. If the runway was 150' wide, that is plenty of room. We actually do 180-degree back-taxi operations quite a bit in Mexico, where they have one taxiway to the 12,000'-long runway. I wish I could scan some airport diagrams for some places we go down there. It is quite interesting.

You'd be surprised how often airliners back-taxi. Maybe not the larger aircraft, but at least the B737-sized and smaller types.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

65' minimum for an 180-degree turn in a B737-300/500/700. If the runway was 150' wide, that is plenty of room. We actually do 180-degree back-taxi operations quite a bit in Mexico, where they have one taxiway to the 12,000'-long runway. I wish I could scan some airport diagrams for some places we go down there. It is quite interesting.

You'd be surprised how often airliners back-taxi. Maybe not the larger aircraft, but at least the B737-sized and smaller types.

65' wow. I suppose they are right on the edge of the rw when that happens.

any ideas on the 'x'?

[Kingairer]

"X" Means runway 10.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

"X" Means runway 10.

Another Kingairerism.....

I would expect nothing less from the Booby Bungalow man!

X=10 I should have known....so obvious

[bike21]

Nice job! CRM is priceless, and it helps to have solid crewmembers to rely on. Except for my Captain last night playing tricks on me the entire leg. Actually he was showing me a few fun ways to mess with FOs after I upgrade one of these years

[Cheechako]

It looks like they were resurfacing 25 when they took that picture. It's open now.

We do quite a bit of back-taxi operations in Alaska. Most of the arctic and many of the airports in South East Alaska don't have taxiways to the ends of the runway. So we head to the end and swing it around. The 737 does pretty good. . . even the big ones. We took a -900 into Kotzebue and Nome last night. The Kotz runway is 5900'.


We're not authorized to take off from 25 in Kodiak, anyway. That mountain at the end of the runway is a lot bigger than it looks in the picture!

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Did I read it correctly that even when on the ILS25 that you have to complete it visual from 2.2nm out?

[Cheechako]

Yeah. Weird, huh?

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah. Weird, huh?

Do you know why it is? Could it be because a go around at the runway might NOT give enough clearance for that mountain???

[Cheechako]

The notes say the ILS is unusable inside 2 DME. Don't know why. All my airport information is in my flight bag at the airport. . .

Here are some more pics, rwy 25, 36 and the Jepp ILS:

[ASpilot2be]

Sounds like some interesting flying out that way.

Off topic/
I met an Alaska Airlines pilot who rents a plane from the place where I am training. He is a cool guy. His daughter is working on her PPL too. I hear that he just bought a 170. Know the guy? I think he lives in the Wasilla/Palmer area.
/end off topic

[Hootie]

That's narly. I didn't even know that sort of stuff existed.

[CaptChris]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

65' minimum for an 180-degree turn in a B737-300/500/700. If the runway was 150' wide, that is plenty of room. We actually do 180-degree back-taxi operations quite a bit in Mexico, where they have one taxiway to the 12,000'-long runway.

Beats the CRJ-200 by 10'!