Mesaba gets the -900's.. with proof

[higney85]

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/962260.html


as a PNCL guy I am kinda downed by it, but mesaba could really use the flying to get all the furloughs called back. Congrats to Mesaba! PNCL has enough problems right now anyway....

[Maximillian_Jenius]

So wow, they got nice new shiny planes to go along with their pay cuts and turkey contract. And relax...I'm sure the E170's are coming your way!

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

And relax...I'm sure the E170's are coming your way!

I just do NOT see that happening. Why would they give it PNCL when they can give it to Compass or Mesaba and set the payscale?

Not going to happen.

[kellwolf]

I agree. I don't see the 170s coming here. If Compass happens, they'll go there. However, if they plan on starting in May, they better get their butts in gear training. As far as I know, they aren't even INTERVIEWING yet, much less training. Took me from March until July to be a fully trained CRJ FO, and they still have to do proving runs, etc.

Basically, things are either gonna speed up or get VERY VERY ugly over here. We've lost the -900s, which means management is gonna try to pin it on the pilots. Look for the "Well, we have a TA with the FAs, but the pilots won't talk. They are the reason we didn't get the -900 flying" memo to the employees as a divide and conquer technique. Had nothing to do with management being distracted buying another airline or not wanting to even discuss meeting in the middle on a fair pilot contract. It was all our faults. Or at least, that's how I'm betting they'll spin it.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

So wow, they got nice new shiny planes to go along with their pay cuts and turkey contract. And relax...I'm sure the E170's are coming your way!

It doesnt make sense in a training standpoint. Pinnacle already flies the CRJ2, so if were going to get the bigger jets, it should've been the 900s, not the ERJ. CRJ and the CRJ9, it is only differences training. Where as the E-175 is a whole new plane. And from what i understand NW pays the training costs, so it would have be cheaper for them to give ups the 900 IF we were supposed to get the bigger planes.

Maybe compass will really happen. or maybe the 175 orderswill be converted to 190/195's and replace the 9s. who knows

Upgrade is fast enough without the 900s. ITs a good thing we arent getting bigger planes. for 2 reasons. 1)The bigger planes should be at mainline, and 2)now management has less leverage during negotiations. They dont have the -900 carrott to dangle in our face. and even if they did, I dont think our pilot group would have cared. Maybe I am being overly optomistic, but I think that our pilot group is united, and wont settle for growth, we want a contract with improved QOL and pay. We deserve it.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by blee256

Upgrade is fast enough without the 900s. ITs a good thing we arent getting bigger planes. for 2 reasons. 1)The bigger planes should be at mainline, and 2)now management has less leverage during negotiations. They dont have the -900 carrott to dangle in our face. and even if they did, I dont think our pilot group would have cared. Maybe I am being overly optomistic, but I think that our pilot group is united, and wont settle for growth, we want a contract with improved QOL and pay. We deserve it.

Exactly. But you left out a reason. We don't have the staffing to cover what we have! Could you imagine if we had to staff THIRTY SIX more airplanes?!??! They'd be JM the #1 CA on a daily basis!

[kellwolf]

Just to add more fuel to the fire on this one....


Seems that since Mesaba is now a wholly owned of NWA, the mainline pilots are calling the -900s a violation of the scope clause. No details on how or what they are saying, and I gotta do MEM-OMA-MEM in about an hour. So, I'll try to dig more details tonight. NWA's MEC is saying if it's not resolved soon, they'll be filing the proper grievance in court with a quickness.....

[higney85]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Just to add more fuel to the fire on this one....


Seems that since Mesaba is now a wholly owned of NWA, the mainline pilots are calling the -900s a violation of the scope clause. No details on how or what they are saying, and I gotta do MEM-OMA-MEM in about an hour. So, I'll try to dig more details tonight. NWA's MEC is saying if it's not resolved soon, they'll be filing the proper grievance in court with a quickness.....

As much as I think anything over 50 seats needs to be mainline, I think reality will be holding scope to 90 seats or more... with this being the case I wouldnt mind seeing those hop over to PNCL... but on the other note I would love to see mesaba get fixed up (as far as furloughs). The latest I heard was 220 on the streets, but I know many have new jobs by this point- I had one in my new hire class last september and 3 out of the 11 I interviewed with were mesaba guys, 2 of which had other interviews already scheduled. Seeing mesaba get absorbed into NWA could be nothing but good for those guys in my book, and may do much better staffing ERJ's opposed to -900's. Who knows, I give up speculating! At least for the weekend...

On a business standpoint as opposed to union standpoint there was some debate over the financing of the -900's. Originally the -900's were to be flown by an independent regional partner, which would be mesaba or 9E (or other bidding on a RFP), but if mesaba were to be bought by NWA they would no longer be a partner and the financing would become a problem. I am sure this was addressed by NWA's latest bankrupcy filing, but I have not seen anything new on the issue. The airline industry is the biggest soap opera... I guess we just need to stay tuned for the next business day....

[H46Bubba]

What's the seat restriction for Northwest's scope?

[kellwolf]

I don't think it's the seat restriction, I think it's the number of aircraft with a "subsidiary." Remember, the scope clause was written when Compass was formed and Mesaba was an independent contractor. Now, NWA has TWO subisdiary regional airlines. I think this is what the mainliners are referring to:

Under the deal, the new regional airline could fly as many as 90 jets; however, for each airplane it assigns to the unit, Northwest would have to place an airplane certified for 77 passengers or more with the mainline and staff it with Northwest Airlines pilots. Furloughed Northwest pilots would also win first rights to all flying jobs created by the new regional subsidiary.

Meanwhile, independent regional affiliates such as Pinnacle Airlines and Mesaba may add up to 55 jets certified to carry between 51 and 76 seats, although Northwest can increase the limit by adding jets with 77 seats or more. Under the deal, furloughed Northwest pilots would gain access to half of the new jobs created by any more regional jets Northwest leases to its regional affiliates.

So, essentially, NWA needs to add 36 planes in the 77+ seat arena and staff it with NWA employees to balance out the 36 76 seat planes it's adding to its new subsidiary. The scope doesn't specifiy "Compass" or "Mesaba." Personally, I'd be fine with the -900s going to Mesaba and the 170s converting to 190s for mainline. Sure, I'd like to see more flying at PCL, but 1) we can't staff what we have and 2) I don't want to get it at the expense of another company. Mesaba is still reeling from the sham bankruptcy beating they took.

Someone on another board made a good point, though. No management person can say that Mesaba got this because of lower pilot wages. Their concessionary contract is better than what we have now and what management is proposing. If one took the "pilot pay" way of looking at at, WE should have gotten it instead of them as we make less. Hell, if they offered us Mesaba's TA, I'd consider taking it. I didn't think it was a good deal for Mesaba b/c of the number of "ifs" in the contract, but it's still better than what they're tossing our way right now.

As for the financing issue, we've got $200million plus in the bank thanks to selling off an interest in NWA that we got from the new ASA. When asked why that money couldn't be spent to help get a new pilot contract, management said they wanted to use some of that for potential financing with a flying partner. Game isn't over yet. However, if no new flying comes in the next couple of months and that money just sits in the bank, there'll be hell to pay.....

[stultus]

I've always wondered what the rational is for ordering the -900 and 170. Are the economics that different making it profitible to operate 2 types that are the same size? Or is it just a tool to whipsaw employee groups.

[jtrain609]

I thought that the 900's were supposed to go to Compass, and that the NWA mainline guys signed their current scope clause with the knowledge that if NWA mainline was going to give their 90 seat CRJ's to a regional carrier it was going to be Compass, and the only reason they signed that was in the event of furlough at mainline they were going to flow back to Compass instead of ending up on the street.

Doesn't that kind of pooch screw that whole idea?

[kellwolf]

Compass is supposed to get the EMBs. The -900s were supposed to go to a regional "affiliate." Now that Mesaba is a wholly owned, it changes things.