Soon to be 98 seat pilot

[Fly-By]

INTERESTING FACTS

SkyWest reported net income of $40.7 million for the quarter ended September 30, 2006 (aviation today, Oct. 30,2006).
Since our cost of living pay freeze in 2001, inflation has been 12.76% (inflationdata.com).

Skywest Airlines CRJ200 pilot pay rate is higher than ASA’s CR200 pilot pay rate (skywestonline.com, airlinepilotcentral.com).

SkyWest Airlines selected to operate up to 25 CRJ200’s for Midwest Airlines ( Dec 21, 2006 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX News Network/ — Midwest Airlines, Inc.).
ASA’s CRJ700 pilot pay rate is higher than SkyWest Airlines CRJ700 pilot pay rate (skywestonline.com, airlinepilotcentral.com).
ASA selected to operate 8 CR700’s for Delta out of KCVG (skywestonline.com).
Poverty level income in 2005 was $19,350 for a family of four, unless you live in Alaska, where it was $24,190 (US Dept. of health and human services).
New hires can make $19,020 if they credit 1,000 hours ($19,250 in 2007).

It costs around $138,000 dollars to obtain a degree in aviation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (http://www.erau.edu/er/costs.html#flight).

Family medical insurance will cost between $1,264 to $3638 in 2006 (skywestonline.com)
Mesa Airlines hourly rate for a 5 yr. captain on the CRJ900 is $67/hr. (airlinepilotcentral.com).
SkyWest Airlines hourly rate for a 5 yr. captain on the CRJ900 is $63/hr. with the new BHO overide…it is $66/hr. (crewmember policy manual PBS version sp327).
The DC9 10 series accommodates up to 90 passengers (boeing.com).

A CRJ900 accommodates up to 90 passengers (bombardier.com).
Bombardier is planning on building a CRJ900X which will accommodate up to 98 passengers (National Post 06/19/06).

Our pay rate for the 700/900 is from 60-99 seats (skywestonline.com).
CRJ900 training is mandatory (skywestonline-Klen Brooks CRJ 700 and CRJ 900 Qualification Requirements November 27, 2006 ).


source:
marknolin.com

edited by kristie: thread title should not circumvent the censor we have built here..and the "W" word isn't acceptable...just an FYI

[DV8Pilot]

DAL Scope clause will not allow SKYW to operate at greater than a 76 seat capacity... and Mark Nolin is right, first year pay sux.

DV8

[jtrain609]

That's what regional pilots said about 50 seat jets

Then 70 seat jets

Then 76 seat jets

Then 86 seat jets...

[DV8Pilot]

Then that is an issue with the Legacy pilot groups not standing strong on their set scope. Don't get me wrong, I do not want to be flying a 98 pax jet at a regional, but remember that the scope was put in place by the legacy pilots and their management. I am thankful to see "regional jets" (EMB-190) going to mainline pilots, as the idea of Johnny O getting his hands on them gives me nightmares. With the current trends in the industry I can't see SKYW operating with more than 76 seats and continuing to maintain a partnership with DAL.

DV8

[mrivc211]

There's not much this pilot can do when it has no backbone or unity.

[MFT1Air]

Now I know I'm a layperson; I'm missing some significant points being addressed given the numbers presented.

I'll sit, listen and learn something here.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by MFT1Air

Now I know I'm a layperson; I'm missing some significant points being addressed given the numbers presented.

I'll sit, listen and learn something here.

No problem. The pay rates for these 98 seat airplanes are disgusting.

Making 20 an hour to fly 98 people around should be criminal.

The CRJ-900s are taking the place of the DC-9s and 737s, planes on which the pilots made much more than the RJ drivers

[surreal1221]

What is the likely hood of a first year guy even getting assigned to the -900? Just wondering. And does the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th year pay equal out?

First year pay sucks everywhere, no doubt. But just wondering if it's still a bastard at whatever rates SKW proposes beyond year 1?

(I'm not supporting 20 an hour for first year. . . just an FYI)

[E_Dawg]

Hopefully they will get 777's soon.

[surreal1221]

After reading more on this Mark Nolin guy, I like some of his thinking. Best of luck to him.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Where did you hear about a 98 seat 900X? I checked on Bombardier website and did a google search. Both of which produced nothing...

Not saying you're lying, I 'd just love to read an article!

[mrivc211]

Originally Posted by mrivc211

There's not much this pilot can do when it has no backbone or unity.

I meant pilot group. Whoops.

[DV8Pilot]

Mark Nolin did win the election for president of our student government, errr I mean SAPA. Best of luck to Mark (he got my vote), but my confidence in SAPA is waining.


DV8

<---- Still not completely sold on ALPA, but its time for us to grow up.

[surreal1221]

What are some of the main issues holding guys back from supporting ALPA?

[mrivc211]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

What are some of the main issues holding guys back from supporting ALPA?

1. Dues
2. ALPA failed at their previous carrier(when actually their MEC failed, and their lack of knowledge prevents them from understanding this)
3. Unions are evil (propaganda put out by mgmt).
4. The Kool Aid flows freely, why stop it.

[DV8Pilot]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

What are some of the main issues holding guys back from supporting ALPA?

For me there is a perceived conflict of interest. ALPA National is run by legacy pilots who believe that the regionals are taking their flying, but at the same time these are the pilots who wouldn't stoop to the level of flying a 50 seat jet. I do understand that it is the MEC at each airline who has a greater impact on success, but when some of the pilots at the national level would rather see some regionals fail, and have that flying back under the mainline banner, I have a hard time believing that they would have our best interest at heart.

Additionally, apart from those on the SKYW ALPA OC, I can't see any new face actually representing the pilot group. Most of us, myself included, just want to do our job and not get involved with the politics of running a company, so I don't see how the MEC would look much different than the SAPA EB.

DV8

[surreal1221]

Interesting viewpoint. One I can honestly respect.

I've had my reservations about ALPA, and their interest in the regional world. I'll agree that the perception is that they don't care, and would much rather see the regional world eat themselves alive. Sad, but with a new ALPA president, hopefully that outlook from ALPA national will change.

All the best to you, and whatever does happen at SKW.

[aussieflyer]

The problem is that there is so much propaganda out there its hard to know for a newhire which way to go union wise in a place like skywest. You have management feeding the koolaid on one hand and then you have the union scaremongering on the other, and yes they do scaremonger.

I also think that there is likely a disconnect between ALPA legacy members and the RJ drivers. Just look at the RJDC dispute site and you will see a different viewpoint, albeit one with ALOT of propaganda.

The problem is that i'm not sure either management or ALPA has played a straight game when it comes to all of this. Obviously I would always side with ALPA rather than management but it doesnt make it easy when you start hearing some stories of what goes on in both the local MEC's and national.

[DV8Pilot]

Originally Posted by aussieflyer

...it doesnt make it easy when you start hearing some stories of what goes on in both the local MEC's and national.

Add to that working at Mesa or TSA and then you have no confidence in any MEC.

DV8

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by DV8Pilot

Add to that working at Mesa or TSA and then you have no confidence in any MEC.

DV8

Oddly enough, I have total faith in the guys on both the MEC and negotiating committee here at PCL. I do have to agree with the conflict of interest at ALPA national when it comes to the regionals v mainline. They're on both sides of the scope clause. As far as scaremongering and propaganda, both union and management are guilty of both. I've heard "they're gonna outsource our flying" before from the union side, but I've also heard "your union is gonna cost you your job" from the other side.....

[pilot602]

, so I don't see how the MEC would look much different than the SAPA EB.

The difference is a legally binding contract.

Add to that working at Mesa or TSA and then you have no confidence in any MEC.

If you choose to only see the negative you ignore the little success stories like, I dunno ... SOUTHWEST.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

What are some of the main issues holding guys back from supporting ALPA?

ALPA doesn't give a rats ass about any regional.


The fact though that we are flying around a modern day DC9 for a third of the pay is #########!

[DV8Pilot]

Originally Posted by pilot602

The difference is a legally binding contract.

One when management chooses to ignore it [the contract], the lovely, arduous grievance process takes over, where I'll still be required to fly the trip because the CP says "Well thats not how we are interpreting it", and my compensation will show up two years later in the form of "a day off that you take any day... except these..."

Originally Posted by pilot602

If you choose to only see the negative you ignore the little success stories like, I dunno ... SOUTHWEST.

Hate to tell ya, but Southwest is NOT an ALPA Carrier.

Don't get me wrong, we have out grown the student government that we have now, but I still don't believe that ALPA cure all elixir [more like snake oil as far as I'm concerned] that they want us to believe they are.

DV8

[pilot602]

Originally Posted by DV8Pilot

One when management chooses to ignore it [the contract], the lovely, arduous grievance process takes over, where I'll still be required to fly the trip because the CP says "Well thats not how we are interpreting it", and my compensation will show up two years later in the form of "a day off that you take any day... except these..."

And right now you can be fired for the color of your shoes, because you look funny or your MOD happens to be bored ... try grieving that. Oh wait, you can't.

Hate to tell ya, but Southwest is NOT an ALPA Carrier.

Where, exactly, did I say they were ALPA? I was simply pointing out that they are the single most, highly unionized carrier out there right now. Yet they, and their pilots, are very successful. TMYK.

Don't get me wrong, we have out grown the student government that we have now, but I still don't believe that ALPA cure all elixir [more like snake oil as far as I'm concerned] that they want us to believe they are. DV8

ALPA isn't the cure all, be all. Anyone that thinks ALPA is indeed such a thing is a fool.

It's a start.

Oh and one more thing. SKW is already ALPA. When they bought ASA, in cash, they brought ALPA on property and guess what? ASA pilots get paid more SKW does - for the same work in the same aircraft.

The thing here that everyone is missing is ALPA, any union, is only as good as those who participate in it.

Regardless, the situation as it stands is ridiculous.

SKW just turned in a $40 million dollar profit off the work you and I do, for a single quarter. SKW makes more money than the afforementioned Southwest.

Even If they gave every pilot a $10,000/yr raise it would cost them roughly $30 million annually or in other words less than one quarter's profit (this is an extreme example I'm not advocating a $10k/yr raise).

And it's not even really all about pay, IMHO, it's about work rules (ours aren't bad, but they're not great) and security ... we have the same work protections as a Wal-Mart employee.

[DV8Pilot]

Originally Posted by pilot602

Where, exactly, did I say they were ALPA? I was simply pointing out that they are the single most, highly unionized carrier out there right now. Yet they, and their pilots, are very successful.

I apologize that I miss understood your reference. My problem is not with unions, but with ALPA, hence the Mesa and TSA reference. If we could form our own "in house" union I would be motivated, or even excited, but I cannot believe that ALPA truly has the regional pilots' best interest in mind.

Originally Posted by surreal1221

I'll agree that the perception is that they don't care, and would much rather see the regional world eat themselves alive.

When I consider the choice of who I want to represent my interest I am going to look at their entire history, good and bad, to make my decision, and as it stands ALPA still needs to prove themselves to me as have our best interest in mind.

DV8