What one year at a regional will get you

[wheelsup]

So I decided to figure out some stats from the year I worked at a regional. Here they are:

• Pay: $24,427 hourly
• Per diem: $3,402
• Total: $27,829

• Average TOTAL Days spent at home on coach (including not flying on reserve): 16.2
• Average scheduled days off /month: 15.1 including 5 weeks after training of no flying
• Average scheduled days off /month: 13.8 not including the 5 week break (essentially the months spent flying the "line").

• Average "TAFB" or time away from base: 2,430 hours.
• Average time (in days) away from home/month (not including training): 8.4
• Average time (in days) away from home for the entire year including 6 weeks training: 142.8

• FAR block (flying time): 46:21 /month for the entire 12 months
• FAR block (flying time): 60:15 /month not including ground school and sim (essentially the average for months that I was flying the "line").

In the next year (assuming the bottom doesn't fall out here or in the industry) I expect to:

• FAR block ~80 hours/month
• Credit ~95 hours/month
• TAFB ~300 hours/month

This will result in (assuming we don't get the old contract back, which would result in a $5/hour raise):

• Pay: $40,336 hourly
• Per diem: $5,400
• Total: $45,736

Average Days off/month: 13.5
Side business income: ~$5,000


Total as a CFI the year prior: ~$27,500. Including side business: ~$32,000. Total flight hours as a CFI the year prior: 985. Average days off as a CFI: 8/month .


Wow that was depressing looking at that...

[bwade210]

Nice writeup!

[FlyingNole]

Seems okay to me...You knew what you were getting in to, right? Suck it up, or change jobs

[mrivc211]

Hey Nole- Take a hike Bro. Seriously, take a hike.

[DE727UPS]

"Suck it up, or change jobs"

Or get out of the biz.

[FlyingNole]

Originally Posted by mrivc211

Hey Nole- Take a hike Bro. Seriously, take a hike.

Why? I like my job, the pay sucks, you don't hear me bitching about it.

So take the walk yourself.

DE727UPS seems to agree with me

[wheelsup]

this post was intended to help people plan for their first/second year at a regional, not as a "it is what it is" thread. Seriously, please stop. There's no need for this to go to the lav.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

So I decided to figure out some stats from the year I worked at a regional. Here they are:

• Pay: $24,427 hourly
• Per diem: $3,402
• Total: $27,829

• Average TOTAL Days spent at home on coach (including not flying on reserve): 16.2
• Average scheduled days off /month: 15.1 including 5 weeks after training of no flying
• Average scheduled days off /month: 13.8 not including the 5 week break (essentially the months spent flying the "line").

• Average "TAFB" or time away from base: 2,430 hours.
• Average time (in days) away from home/month (not including training): 8.4
• Average time (in days) away from home for the entire year including 6 weeks training: 142.8

• FAR block (flying time): 46:21 /month for the entire 12 months
• FAR block (flying time): 60:15 /month not including ground school and sim (essentially the average for months that I was flying the "line").

In the next year (assuming the bottom doesn't fall out here or in the industry) I expect to:

• FAR block ~80 hours/month
• Credit ~95 hours/month
• TAFB ~300 hours/month

This will result in (assuming we don't get the old contract back, which would result in a $5/hour raise):

• Pay: $40,336 hourly
• Per diem: $5,400
• Total: $45,736

Average Days off/month: 13.5
Side business income: ~$5,000


Total as a CFI the year prior: ~$27,500. Including side business: ~$32,000. Total flight hours as a CFI the year prior: 985. Average days off as a CFI: 8/month .


Wow that was depressing looking at that...

Hey but you get to fly a JET and on top of that, that jet has LCD displays!!!

[Fandango Flyer]

"DE727UPS seems to agree with me"

'Nole, if you think that that means you have an ally who is a "positive reinforcer" or a "mentor", think again.

After being a visitor to this site for quite a long time, I've observed that a small percentage of the members, most often those now firmly established in the aviation industry, are so sick of the method in which today's aspiring pilots obtain their training, the locations where they receive it, the uniforms they wear while conducting it, the expectations they have upon completing it, and the experiences they have upon reaching their first professional job, that they need to just move on. They have outgrown this site. I am sure that there is someplace where they can go to b$tch about how the young bucks are doing everything so wrong without being considered so arrogant or, sometimes, just plain mean.

Or else run the risk of losing the new, aspiring pilot as a JC forum member and making this that site.

[jtrain609]

Originally Posted by Fandango Flyer

"DE727UPS seems to agree with me"

'Nole, if you think that that means you have an ally who is a "positive reinforcer" or a "mentor", think again.

After being a visitor to this site for quite a long time, I've observed that a small percentage of the members, most often those now firmly established in the aviation industry, are so sick of the method in which today's aspiring pilots obtain their training, the locations where they receive it, the uniforms they wear while conducting it, the expectations they have upon completing it, and the experiences they have upon reaching their first professional job, that they need to just move on. They have outgrown this site. I am sure that there is someplace where they can go to b$tch about how the young bucks are doing everything so wrong without being considered so arrogant or, sometimes, just plain mean.

Or else run the risk of losing the new, aspiring pilot as a JC forum member and making this that site.

Says Mr.1 post, how about you introduce yourself before you start telling us how to think?

[Dugie8]

Wheels
Nice write up. That is about what I did my first year at PDT, felt like I worked a lot more than 24k worth, but I had a blast doing it!

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by Fandango Flyer

"DE727UPS seems to agree with me"

'Nole, if you think that that means you have an ally who is a "positive reinforcer" or a "mentor", think again.

After being a visitor to this site for quite a long time, I've observed that a small percentage of the members, most often those now firmly established in the aviation industry, are so sick of the method in which today's aspiring pilots obtain their training, the locations where they receive it, the uniforms they wear while conducting it, the expectations they have upon completing it, and the experiences they have upon reaching their first professional job, that they need to just move on. They have outgrown this site. I am sure that there is someplace where they can go to b$tch about how the young bucks are doing everything so wrong without being considered so arrogant or, sometimes, just plain mean.

Or else run the risk of losing the new, aspiring pilot as a JC forum member and making this that site.

Get out of my head!!!!!!!!!!

[Alchemy]

Sadly, that is actually a bit above average 1st year regoinal pay I'd guess. I'm suprised at how little you flew; that trip productivity is not so hot. Were you on reserve most of that time?

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by FlyingNole

Why? I like my job, the pay sucks, you don't hear me bitching about it.

So take the walk yourself.

DE727UPS seems to agree with me

Wow. . . got a real ######### right here.

Where in the initial post does it even LOOK like he is pissed or frustrated that he is making that kind of cash? Maybe depressed, but it also appears he understands the system very well.

I never got that impression.

wheelsup, good write up.

[Seggy]

You forgot to mention all the hot girls we get!

[Doug Taylor]

Wow, if I knew I was going to make another speech so soon I'd have washed the paint off my hands and put on a tie or something.

I really don't believe in the 'balkanization' of the aviation internet where one site is for 'newer' people and another is for 'more established' pilots because at some point you need to bridge the gap.

There are a lot of changes brewing in the aviation industry and unless you have a forum where a starry-eyed student pilot can interact with a 747 captain and exchange the 'straight dope', we're toast.

The notion of 'outgrowing' a website, from my interpretation, is that a person feels himself to be too important and successful to come mingle with the ones beneath them -- someplace where that person may himself been only 12 months earlier and benefitted from he insight and guidance from those that didn't forget where they came from and those that helped him.

It's not a negative post, it's not a positive post, but it's informational. Life as a regional pilot isn't what the glossy magazine ads say it is, but if those that attain their career goals don't come back to the aviation community to say, "Hey, here's some challenges that I faced that you might want to think about and prepare for" we're screwing ourselves.

Some of the guys at the "other sites" that backtalk Jetcareers were probably brand "n00bies" a few years ago and wrote me a "Dear Dough" letter but now they've burned a little Jet-A and think they're the new hotness and "graduated elsewhere".

Whatever floats people's boats I guess.

To another point in the thread about 'not liking it and quitting', that's another reason why the industry is wrecked at this point in a lot of ways. If you see an injustice, you've got to fight to change it.

Aviation is a profession, not a Pop Warner Football league where if you don't like a coach or a team, you take you helmet and mouthpiece and try out for another. The benefits you do (and in some cases, do not) have are from your predecessors fighting tooth and nail for them. It takes one generation of pilots resting on their laurels, drinking company kool aid or signing a highly unnecessary concessionary contract and we've all got to take a bite out of that poop sandwich.

If you don't like it, fight the system. But if Wheelsup is upset enough, he needs to fight for that in his next contract and assist others trying to rectify that in theirs, not just take his ball and go home.

[surreal1221]

Well said Dougy Fresh.

[Adam2006]

Thanks Wheels, very informative.

[Fandango Flyer]

Says Mr.1 post, how about you introduce yourself before you start telling us how to think?

I was a guest for quite some time and have always enjoyed the forums, using it as a guide to help me through my training, started several years ago, to now my position as a CFI. As a matter of fact, it was a JC post that identified the CFI job that I applied for and was accepted at.

I am orginally from the Midwest, in my mid-thirties, and had been in a solid job for over ten years. Once I made my decision to switch careers, I began my training at the local county FBO. While I really enjoyed my instructor, the FBO and the proximity to my home, my local FBO had no affilition with any of the school loan people, so I packed up and went to Florida for the bulk of my training.

I enjoyed the academy environment and think that they provided me an excellent foundation to work from. Were they the end-all-to-be-all? Of course not, but, then again, I was able to secure a loan with them so, for me, the FBO vs. Academy question is really moot.

On the academy issue, though, I have heard all types of criticisms of them, some of them valid and others simply bitter. All I know is that I never worked harder academically, including my undergraduate degree, and that it was no "certification factory", as I worked my tail off to obtain my ratings. I would have loved to have stayed at home to conduct my training and I believe that my local FBO would have prepared me just as well. The FBO/Flying Club that I began with has trained many, many professional pilots. But not many recently. Their inability to secure a loan agreement specifically designed to permit me to train without needing to work full-time is a national problem for all of our FBO's and one that I hope AOPA will be able to address.

My training in Florida took a little over a year and a half to go from Private through Multi-Commercial. I took a few months off to refresh, and then began my CFI, which took about four months.

During that time, I started looking for jobs away from Florida so that I could broaden my airspace, terrain, airplane-type, etc. horizons and found (posted by JC ) a job out in California, which is where I've been for several months now.

I am now interested in reading posts that relate to what it is going to be like at the next level, which is why I thought Wheelsup's yearly Regional/CFI post was so informative, because, unlike 'Nole, I am not there and I do not know "exactly" what I am getting into, especially the financials, except to know that it is going to be lean for the next several years.

I had hoped, too, that my first post would have been on something far less confrontational, yet this was the way it worked out. We need to remember that for every member that is signed on that there are four times as many "guests" viewing.

Fandango Flyer

[Mr_Creepy]

Not a good idea to criticize someone for speaking the truth.

Wheelsup - nice analysis.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Sadly, that is actually a bit above average 1st year regoinal pay I'd guess. I'm suprised at how little you flew; that trip productivity is not so hot. Were you on reserve most of that time?

I was on reserve Dec, Jan, & Feb. I FAR blocked 66:30 hrs, 39:45 hrs, and 54:15 hrs respectively. Credit was 81:42 hrs, 75:00 (guarantee) hrs, and 79:44 hrs respectively.

An average 4-day trip here is only 21 hours or so of pay, vs. the 24.5 they had on the united side. It's got much more to do with US Air schedules and how they schedule their a/c use rather than the scheduling done here. Or so we're told.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

If you don't like it, fight the system. But if Wheelsup is upset enough, he needs to fight for that in his next contract and assist others trying to rectify that in theirs, not just take his ball and go home.

The only time I said I would just outright quit was if I was in mesaba pilots' shoes and my pay stub was showing $<12k after tax after I had been working there a few years.

There's a difference in standing up for something you believe in and being a martyr. Sadly, I can't afford to be a martyr at this point. Sorry if that offends anyone.

I personally find the fact that delta added, what, $500 million to their coffers over the last quarter quite entertaining. Bankruptcy? Riiiight. Hopefully you (doug) and others can continue to fight the good fight to make it worth going thru being an RJ (or whatever plane) pilot. I'll keep standing by MY MEC as long as they continue to turn down reduced wages/QOL proposals from the company. I will also continue serving in the union, even after probation is over...(2 more days!).

[FlyingNole]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Wow. . . got a real ######### right here.

Where in the initial post does it even LOOK like he is pissed or frustrated that he is making that kind of cash? Maybe depressed, but it also appears he understands the system very well.

I never got that impression.

wheelsup, good write up.

Because he was talking about how his other job payed better...Thats how I took it. People on this site usually bitch and moan about their job/pay, so why not assume he was doing the same. He wasn't, and he stated that after the fact so I didnt take issue with it. How does me telling someone that they should look for another job if they arent happy make me an #########? I never berrated him, like you clearly like to do, I was just curious as to why he'd stick around if he doesnt like his job/QOL.

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by FlyingNole

Why? I like my job, the pay sucks, you don't hear me bitching about it.

So take the walk yourself.

DE727UPS seems to agree with me

And how long have you been on the line now?

[surreal1221]

Perhaps ######### was a little harsh. I just don't understand why/how someone can assume that he is unhappy. Sure it could be depressing. 1st year pay is not glamorous. . . but you know what you are getting into.

In all of wheelsup's post I have read, he has never portrayed a hateful feeling towards his profession. He has, in my opinion, provided information for the training public to use to base their decisions on, at least with a little bit more realistic information.

Bottom line is, 1st year pay sucks everywhere. It's part of the industry. I'm sure he knew about it before he walked through the door. But a 16k jump after one year is not bad, not bad at all.

I just wouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly. All I'm saying. I appologize for the ######### bit.