For the new hires...

[pullup]

I know there have been quite a few JC'ers who have been hired into regionals in the past year or so. I am wondering how reality has been compared to the dream? We have all heard advice from the seasoned vets about what to expect, how does it compare? Are you away from home all the time, flying a ton, passengers being a$$es? Also, if you had to do it all over again, would you?

[blee256]

I think this is a great question. and i will be as honest as I can

Originally Posted by pullup

I am wondering how reality has been compared to the dream?

The job is great from Block out to block in. and at my current company, its notorious for Junior Manning and extensions, but I havent really been screwed by scheduling. The pay is my main gripe.

I have all heard advice from the seasoned vets about what to expect, how does it compare?

Well for ground school it sucks. haha. When people said its like drinking from a firehose, I thought they were exagerrating. Buts its actually more like an understatement. However I think a lot of the stress is self-inflicted. Looking back I was stressing out way more than I needed, but at the time you dont know any better. You feel like you will never grasp it. and thats just systems. At the same time you are studying systems, you have to practice your flows and procedures because as soon as g/s is done you go right into CPT and sims.

As for crusty veterans....I used to think airline pilots complain too much. But now that I am one, I do the same thing. This industry is in some real pain. We all hope that its gonna get better. WIll it? Probably, but its going to get worse before then.

Are you away from home all the time, flying a ton, passengers being a$$es?

Yes you are away from home. and if you commute, its even worse. Regional airlines avg between 75-90 hours. I would say its normally 4 days on, 2 or 3 off. If you work for PInnacle you do a lot of flying, or at least you used to. If you work for CHQ you almost never work. haha. j/k. Pax being asses, I say "there are passengers behind me?" you rarely have to deal with pax. The FA mainly deals with them. Once in a while the Capt will have to go out and take care of a pax that may look intoxicated or someone who insists on bringing on a huge rollerbag onboard an RJ instead of gate checking it. As an FO you are busy getting clearance, atis, and setting up the FMS, you hardly notice the passengers boarding. You only see them at the end of the flight when you open the cockpit door to do you post flight walkaround and notice, "hey we had pax"

Also, if you had to do it all over again, would you?

seriously?? probably not. not the way this industry is in. I hate living paycheck to paycheck.

The job (flying) is great. there is no better office than the flightdeck at FL330. but when you factor in time away from family if you have one, missed holidays/graduations/kids soccer games/etc... then you start to wonder if its all worth it. not to mention the lack of job secuirty.




Good luck with everything....this may not be what you wanted to hear, but its how i honestly feel. There isnt a day that goes by that I think about moving back to LA, and enrolling in Mt. SAC's air traffic controller program

[pullup]

Thanks for the reply. I hope others will post as well. I thought it would be great to hear from some people who had the starry eyes and now that they are in the biz, how it really is. Thanks again!!

[Alchemy]

I've been at a regional for a year now and I enjoy my job more than I did when I was first hired. I'm finally pseudo-comfortable the airplane and my surroundings, so it's easy to relax and just enjoy life at work. I still learn a lot on every trip and flying into new airports every week keeps you on your toes, but when a challenge arises its more "enjoyable" whereas it used to be a bit stressful.

Just about every captain and flight attendant have been easy to work with and most of the time they're fun to hang around with during overnights too. I think we have a great flight crew community here.

I'm about halfway up through the FO ranks at my airline; I can hold a commutable line with 4 on/3 days off. Quality of life is pretty good (especially now that I'm off first year pay). I'll typically show up to the airport for my commute about noon on a thursday and get home about 3-4 PM on a sunday, so I have a full 72 hrs, usually closer to 96 consecutive hours at home every week. I actually want to work more; I try to maximize my schedule so I can fly close to 100 hours per month.

The only downside is that I can't always get weekends off, and that's especially painful during football season. Other than that I'm pretty happy with my schedule. Keep in mind I'm single with virtually no commitments at home, so the lifestyle suits me pretty well.

Passengers being asses? Not too much....of course you hear "wow this is a small airplane" or "have you graduated from high school yet?" at least a few times every day but it doesn't bother me, never really did. If I need to, I just respond "yes it is a small plane, sorry", or "yes, 4 years ago". The RJ may seem big compared to the cessnas we all fly at some point, but to the average joe who's used to flying a 737, the RJ is in fact a small airplane. No point in having an inferiority complex about it, since the RJ is basically inferior to mainline aircraft (payload, range, economy, passenger amenities, etc). I've just accepted that fact and moved on.

If I had to do it all over again, there's not much I would change, except maybe filling out the job application a little bit earlier so I could've been a few dozen seniority numbers higher! All in all, I'm pretty happy, but what I've done is nothing special....just about anybody can go zip out their ratings and stumble into the right seat of an RJ. I'm just happy the company I'm at seems stable.....for now.

[subpilot]

What company is that?

[Alchemy]

Expressjet.

[Kingairer]

Airline flying is different and not like I could ever imagine. Your first airline job will be different then any flying youve done before, and Im not really talking about just being the FL's.

I enjoy the flying, but im typically not asking to do more after i've done my fair share for the month, Ive never picked up one day of OT. Luckily we cant be Jr assigned here. I dont feel like im "getting alot of flying". I dont keep track of it like I used to. I dont feel like im "building time". I am just trying to get the paycheck, not have to fill out extra paper work and go home at the end of the day. And that pretty much is what I work for on a day to day basis, to get done. Saying that make it sounds like its miserable, but its not, its a job. If I had my choice I would still fly, and probably even airlines. I do about one leg a week and thats about it. But again, its a job, and I dont call those shots.

Overnites can be fun. Most all the crews youll fly with youll have some good stuff in common, and if not, you have the common goal of wanting to make the best of the odd ball situation. On rare occasion you can get a group that just doesnt mesh. Getting paired with a "infamous" CA can ruin your day, but most of those are few and far between. There are also those CA that youd just rather not be flying with. And once you upgrade you get to fly with your favorite captain everyday, yeah read that again.

Some of the flying can be very routine, but there are also time when things can get pretty challenging. Every pilot like a good challenge and a chance to show off there skillzzzz, right? If it was always 10 Knots down the runway and SKC, i dont think many of us would have the love for it that we do.

In the end,
The "glamour" or awe of airline flying ,if there is any, wears off pretty quick. You just drive the bus, stop at the stops on the map, and collect your paycheck.

[FlyChicaga]

I was giving this thread a lot of thought. I'd say after two and a half years of doing this, I still really enjoy my job. I love flying, and I like work. I think I could give up the airlines if something big required it, but until that catastrophic event happens, I'll stick to it and be happy. I think I've given up the "glamor" and huge unattainable goals like major captain by 30, but nonetheless this job offers me so much that other jobs would not.

I'd say mostly, it's the different places, and the people. People are so different everywhere we go, and it's great to talk and meet new people. If it weren't for this job, there are a lot of places I probably wouldn't have been yet. Paris, Vegas, Hawaii, St. Johns, Mexico. There are also many people I wouldn't have met, like my current girlfriend or all of my JC friends!

The pay isn't great, and they keep cutting benefits, but I've started looking for other places to find enjoyment with work. Life isn't all about money, and at this point in my life, the things I'm gaining other than green paper have a huge worth to me. The current dream isn't the same as the childhood one, but it's almost more exciting that way.

Life is what you make it.

[blee256]

whoop whoop pullup,

There was an incident on my flight and I thought you might be interested. It refers to your question about Pax being asses.....

Before we can push back the FA goes through the cabin to make sure its secure (seat belts fastened, etc...) well she took a while doing her check, and when she finally made it back up to the front she said there are some kids refusing to put on their seatbelts......long story short....they were taken off the plane and then put back on.....

As an FO, I didnt have to do anything. BUt the Capt. had to fill out a flight safety report and the FA had to fill out a Flight Incident Report. And for me I just looked at my epulats and stared at my 3 stripes. 3 stripes for Aint My Problem. haha. just thought I would share.

The job is great when the main cabin door is closed. I dont think anyone will deny that. Its all the other things after block in, that drive people crazy about this industry.

[Doug Taylor]

Originally Posted by blee256

The job is great when the main cabin door is closed. I dont think anyone will deny that. Its all the other things after block in, that drive people crazy about this industry.

s'actly!

I think of my three stripes as "Hello? Oh hi Mr chief pilot, you sound pretty angry... who? Hold on, I'll get him... Hey skipper, it's the chief pilot on the telephone and he sounds pissed about something, want a Starbucks? I'll be right back, don't leave without me! yuk yuk yuk..."

[pullup]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

s'actly!

I think of my three stripes as "Hello? Oh hi Mr chief pilot, you sound pretty angry... who? Hold on, I'll get him... Hey skipper, it's the chief pilot on the telephone and he sounds pissed about something, want a Starbucks? I'll be right back, don't leave without me! yuk yuk yuk..."

Yuppers! That's why I posed the question, I wanted to know if the "folklore" was true or more of exaggerated tales from the local watering hole. I guess the abriged (sp?) answer would be..."I love flying but most everything else sucks monkey balls." Close enough?

PS - Blee, love the penguins!!

[CFIse]

The trick is to understand what you're getting into. It's bus driving, OK a far more expensive bus and you're being paid much less than a regular bus driver (tragic, but that's the state of the industry). If you go in expecting to be treated like a Sky God then you'll be unhappy - if you go in expecting to drive the bus you'll be perfectly happy.

[FlyChicaga]

Well I never expected to get treated like a Sky God, but I also don't expected to be considered a bus driver. It's all how much you respect yourself, and demand respect from people. If you let people walk all over you, then they will. Too many pilots let gate agents, rampers, etc. walk all over them, then when the door shuts they sit and complain how they get no respect. Earn it. This doesn't mean being an arrogant *******, either.

[BobDDuck]

Chicaga makes a good point. I've flown with a bunch of captains that take all sorts of abuse from agents, rampers and scheduling and then complain about it for the whole trip. It does get old after a while. It seems that the old generation is tired of the industry, but for what ever reasons aren't getting out. Yesterday we had a kid come up to the cockpit (he was about 6). His mother made some comment like "he really wants to be a pilot when he grows up. His whole room is full of airplanes." The captains says "well, son, you don't want to do that. The job is really bad." So the poor kid walks out of the cockpit asking his mom why it is a bad job. Sure, the job does have it's downsides, but between block out and block in it is pretty darn fun sometimes. I just wish that people would either shut up or get out. I haven't been around long enough I guess to grow jaded yet, although there are some moments.... But it seems like many of the people who have been here for a while now aren't happy to be here anymore. I guess that suprised me a bit.

[pullup]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Chicaga makes a good point. I've flown with a bunch of captains that take all sorts of abuse from agents, rampers and scheduling and then complain about it for the whole trip. It does get old after a while. It seems that the old generation is tired of the industry, but for what ever reasons aren't getting out. Yesterday we had a kid come up to the cockpit (he was about 6). His mother made some comment like "he really wants to be a pilot when he grows up. His whole room is full of airplanes." The captains says "well, son, you don't want to do that. The job is really bad." So the poor kid walks out of the cockpit asking his mom why it is a bad job. Sure, the job does have it's downsides, but between block out and block in it is pretty darn fun sometimes. I just wish that people would either shut up or get out. I haven't been around long enough I guess to grow jaded yet, although there are some moments.... But it seems like many of the people who have been here for a while now aren't happy to be here anymore. I guess that suprised me a bit.

Would you guess that it is becase of the state of the industry right now (pay cuts, no pensions, etc) or because the whole meaning of a pilot has changed? By that I mean that there used to be some glory and respect but now it seems that pilots are just bus drivers and hardly get any respect. Actually, now that I am thinking, do any pilots ever get heartfelt "thank you's" or "job well done"?

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by pullup

...now that I am thinking, do any pilots ever get heartfelt "thank you's" or "job well done"?

As a matter of fact we do, 99% of the time. Most of the time each passenger thanks us individually. Then again, I/we greet each passenger as they board and deplane too. But we aren't an busline......er uh, I mean airline.

[Cruise]

BobDDuck.....I can't believe that.........that was a terrible thing your captain did to tell the stary-eyed kid that being a pilot was a bad profession. I definitely would have told the kid that it wasn't true and when the door closed said something to the captain as well.

That's complete BS! I don't care what the state of the industry is in.....you don't snuff a child's dreams! PERIOD!



On another note....

I actually had a passenger....somewhere in his mid-twenties....and obviously a European tourist on one of my flights last week into LGA. He'd come up to the flight deck when we got in to the gate and was exuberant about the flight. We'd just completed the Expressway Visual 31 and had approached the field from the East. As such, our route took us directly over the LGA VOR and outbound 270 past the Empire State Building....circle South over lower Manhatten and rejoin the approach from there.

Well, anyway, like I said before, he was exuberant and in broken English was telling us how much he enjoyed the flight and the LANDING (I had greased it in). When he deplaned, he and his friend were taking pictures of themselves by the plane.

I was so stoked the rest of the night. It felt great to see not everyone thinks of us as steerage-transporters....aka bus drivers. So, I think we do get the thank-you's occasionally.

[supercell86]

Bus drivers DO NOT.....

-do a weight and balance before each flight
-load an FMS
-kill a small tree everytime they get a "flight relase"
-brief pax
-wear professinol cloths
-deal with VERY complex systems
-care what the hell the wind or ceiling or visibility is
-have a chance of getting to hang out with a hot flight attendant, pardon me
-do not do a huge fuel calculation or preflight inspection....for the most part
-have to worry about a bunch of different complex human factors up at flight level 390 or any flight level for that matter


I could go on and on....but i dont ahve time.....I personally think its what you think of yourself, and also what you put into the job.

Let me say, some people just seem to not see any of the good in flying....Doug Taylor, whenever i read stuff that he writes it's almost always positive, and he seems to make the most of his job, he seems to try and make a good time out of anything.....thats what i want to be like, and i thing other should try hard to do....even though its very hard....because some parts of this life just suck

[blee256]

first off: NJA Capt. I heard you guys come out with a very good contract. Congratulations.


and back to our regularly scheduled programing

Originally Posted by pullup

Actually, now that I am thinking, do any pilots ever get heartfelt "thank you's" or "job well done"?

Actually you do get them alot. You hear the normal THanks, and every so often nice flight, and when I am flying the VEry very rare great landing. ha.

Last week I was deadheading on our airline and the FA on the flight was great. I have met her before she has a great personality. But once we landed in Winnipeg she did her normal PA announcement about welcome..blah..local time is....blah..blah..Check nwa.com for future flights....blah...blah....then at the end of it she said "make sure you thank the pilots, they do a great job of keeping us safe...etc.. I thought that was nice

[NJA_Capt]

Originally Posted by supercell86

Bus drivers DO NOT.....

-wear professinol cloths
-care what the hell the wind or ceiling or visibility is
-have to worry about a bunch of different complex human factors up at flight level 390 or any flight level for that matter

Devil's advocate...again.
They also do not have to pay for their education beyond high school and starting pay is more than the regionals are paying for "responsible" pilots. Now what is wrong with this picture??!! They are also home every night and seldom leave town.

Pilots will sell their soul to fly a jet for $20K, but bus drivers command higher starting pay.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05002/435968.stm
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
In a recent interview about administrative salaries and union wages…The two highest-paid bus drivers got $94,143 and $91,219 in 2003, but those wages reflect a drop since 2001, when the two top drivers grossed $103,318 and $95,552, respectively.

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

The two highest-paid bus drivers got $94,143 and $91,219 in 2003

Be carful... you are doing what people do to this industry all the time. How many times do you hear about the delta pilots making $250,000 a year. Sure, there may have been, but there were only a few of them. What is the AVERAGE and starting salary for bus drivers?

[Minnesota_Flyer]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Be carful... you are doing what people do to this industry all the time. How many times do you hear about the delta pilots making $250,000 a year. Sure, there may have been, but there were only a few of them. What is the AVERAGE and starting salary for bus drivers?

Twin Cities Metro Transit pays $15.49 (Start Rate) to $22.13 (Top Rate)/hour. Full-time at starting rate would be over $32k/year, plus OT, and, unlike pilots, they don't just get paid for flight time.

Qualifications: 1. HS diploma or equivalent; 2. Active licensed driver for at least the last two years; 3. Must be able to read, write, speak, understand and communicate English clearly; and 4. a valid CDL-endorsed driver's license.

MF

[Kingairer]

That questions BS b/c there would be no one to clean up Sh#$. Or something liek that.

[supercell86]

this is gonna get bashed on, but...so what, take a little pride in what you do.....would you rather say your an airline pilot or a bus driver?? Who cares what the requiremtns are.....not to mention i think you have a better chance of making more down the road than a bus driver......it may be a long, dark tunnel, but there is alittle light at the end....so deal with it, or goto bus driver school....losers

[supercell86]

Originally Posted by NJA_Capt

Devil's advocate...again.
They also do not have to pay for their education beyond high school and starting pay is more than the regionals are paying for "responsible" pilots. Now what is wrong with this picture??!! They are also home every night and seldom leave town.

Pilots will sell their soul to fly a jet for $20K, but bus drivers command higher starting pay.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05002/435968.stm
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
In a recent interview about administrative salaries and union wages…The two highest-paid bus drivers got $94,143 and $91,219 in 2003, but those wages reflect a drop since 2001, when the two top drivers grossed $103,318 and $95,552, respectively.

ill tell ya whats wrong with the picture......one person drives at approximatley sea level, at 60 mph, and the other flies Flight level 390, going mach .82

FYI- flying can be a bit more dangerous, just in case you havent figured it out.....