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June 10th, 2005, 03:17
| #76 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,803
 |  Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
can't argue with that  |
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June 10th, 2005, 07:10
| #77 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone
Posts: 5,810
 | Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
[ QUOTE ] How about this one, JT. "Rampers do not clean cockpits at MESA." Remember, different airlines have different policies. XJT trains their ramp crews in cleaning a/c, including the cockpit. They've got the handy wipes as well as a little vacuum. Whether they actually do their jobs or not, that's up to the individual stations. When I was in training in IAH for the job, it was a "This is what you touch, this is what you NEVER touch, make sure the battery switch is off." [/ QUOTE ] Let me put it that way - the COCKPIT PANELS were NEVER CLEANED. It wasn't just Mesa. In all aircraft they knew what button to push to give them ground power, but they were NEVER allowed to touch anything else on the cockpit PANELS. Once in a while I'm sure somebody picked up some trash, maybe once in a blue moon wiped a seat in the cockpit (but I doubt it.) I am still convinced that no one cleaned any flight controls or panels except pilots. |
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June 10th, 2005, 10:55
| #78 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT
Posts: 12,358
 | Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
John, you don't have any recent experience with ExpressJet nor the training program for rampers. Steve does. Let the voice of experience talk.
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June 10th, 2005, 20:18
| #80 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer
Posts: 3,190
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
As far as the uniform goes...Lets say you get it back from the cleaners, then have to double deadhead on loaded flights and then have a 2 hour sit somwhere...hard to keep it crisp. I try my best though honestly. As far as the screens being unreadable, maybe ive seen a couple here and there, but I dont make a habit of cleaning everything insight. I had a 1day trip (no spare unis) about 2 months ago down to MCO and back. During the walkaround I managed to slice my back on some part of the airplane and of course it really hurt. I tried to play it cool, but it was tough to do since it ripped my shirt and left about a foot long streak of greese. NICE. |
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June 10th, 2005, 20:24
| #81 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone
Posts: 5,810
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
[ QUOTE ] John, you don't have any recent experience with ExpressJet nor the training program for rampers. Steve does. Let the voice of experience talk. [/ QUOTE ] John, Steve and I are friends, ok? I stay in touch with the industry. There is no reason to farm me out to pasture just yet.  I think Steve would be amused at you calling him the "voice of experience: with regards to me I still am highly doubtful that an airline will trust minimum wage rampers with a 20 million dollar piece of machinery without extensive (and somewhat expensive) training. They didn't then, and the insurance/lawyer/liability/sue yer ass off/bad press atmosphere of then has certainly not gotten any better, in fact it has worsened. |
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June 11th, 2005, 00:02
| #82 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
The only time I ever saw the inside of a cockpit as a ramper at SkyWest was when Omar gave me the tour. Never cleaned an interior, never started an APU, never saw anyone else do it either.
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June 12th, 2005, 20:51
| #83 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 13,873
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
[ QUOTE ] I still am highly doubtful that an airline will trust minimum wage rampers with a 20 million dollar piece of machinery without extensive (and somewhat expensive) training. They didn't then, and the insurance/lawyer/liability/sue yer ass off/bad press atmosphere of then has certainly not gotten any better, in fact it has worsened. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I'm amused....b/c you're wrong. John has a point, I DO have more experience in XJT ground ops than you. First off, rampers make a tad bit more than minimum wage, but thanks for playing. Also, XJT DOES train them in cleaning the cockpit. Nothing like starting the APU, but they tell you what you can touch and what you can't. Doesn't really cost much since you just hop in a plane that's sitting on the ramp for about 15 minutes. It's not that hard to say "This is the battery switch. Make sure it's off. Don't touch anything else." As long as the rampers sign the paperwork saying they've been trained on "cockpit cleaning procedures," the lawyers are happy. As far as any other airlines, I can't really say what they do. That's why I'm just talking about XJT. Unless they've changed it since last November, that's the way it is. Now, if you snuck off and got hired as an agent at XJT when I wasn't looking, that's one heck of a feat. |
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June 12th, 2005, 21:28
| #84 |
| Administrator  Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
On a related subject, I don't know how the airlines do it, but look at the Navy. You've got 18 and 19 year old carrier deck personnel that are moving, marshalling, and towing aircraft within literal feet (and sometimes inches) of each other on the deck and near the deck edge. That's a lot of trust put into some young individuals. And they likely make equal to minimum wage.
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June 13th, 2005, 07:01
| #85 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone
Posts: 5,810
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
[ QUOTE ] Now, if you snuck off and got hired as an agent at XJT when I wasn't looking, that's one heck of a feat. [/ QUOTE ] LOL No you don't have to worry about that. How long were you at XJT? It wasn' that long ago you were a SWA (or WN) ramp rat. So, do they teach you to clean the panels, the screens, and what we were discussing all along - the controls? And the kicker - did anyone really do it? Because I watched people clean airplanes at Eagle, Mesa, and Midway. I wouldn't actually call them "consummate cleaning professionals" if you know what I mean. The were more like "dab there, dab here, ok lets go get a beer." |
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June 15th, 2005, 21:19
| #86 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 13,873
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
[ QUOTE ] LOL No you don't have to worry about that. How long were you at XJT? It wasn' that long ago you were a SWA (or WN) ramp rat. [/ QUOTE ] Wasn't too long ago. I got hired for the MEM station in Oct and wound up leaving in Feb to get back into flight training full time. [ QUOTE ] So, do they teach you to clean the panels, the screens, and what we were discussing all along - the controls? [/ QUOTE ] Use the wipes on the screens, pick up the big pieces of trash, vacuum what you can. Don't touch ANYTHING else. That was pretty much the training. Now, as far as does anyone do it, I highly doubt it. I always worked mornings, so I was never there that late. Given the condition the planes were in when we came in to open some days, I don't think the cabin area even got cleaned..... |
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June 15th, 2005, 22:27
| #87 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,833
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
That's why I like going to Canada and Mexico. They do the job right. One very early morning in Ottawa, we rolled up and saw the logo light on the tail of our jet lit up. I commented "that can't be ours, can it?" since I didn't know who would have power on it. Well when we get down to the airplane, they cleaned it, fueled it, prepared it, started the APU (MX), and had the heat going. A nice clean, warm, well-lit airplane at 6:00am in the middle of winter. I was impressed! Then we gave the plane away for the next leg.  |
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June 15th, 2005, 23:19
| #88 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 13,873
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
Yeah, MX in MEM is contract, so no luck on that. We had the ground power hooked in and the air/heat cart hooked up (if it was working) for the RONs. They wouldn't let me touch any switches to start anything.....
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June 16th, 2005, 06:56
| #89 |
| Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone
Posts: 5,810
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
[ QUOTE ] Use the wipes on the screens, pick up the big pieces of trash, vacuum what you can. Don't touch ANYTHING else. That was pretty much the training. Now, as far as does anyone do it, I highly doubt it. I always worked mornings, so I was never there that late. Given the condition the planes were in when we came in to open some days, I don't think the cabin area even got cleaned..... [/ QUOTE ] Yeah that's pretty much what I was trying to say. There are certainly areas of the cockpit and cabin that will never get cleaned, unless someone gets the initiative to do it themselves. |
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June 16th, 2005, 22:12
| #90 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,833
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
Well pilots aren't allowed to clean the gear handles anymore.  |
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June 16th, 2005, 22:35
| #91 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: DFW, based in ONT, wishing I was in Maine
Posts: 3,899
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
...not in cruise flight anyway.  |
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June 16th, 2005, 23:30
| #92 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 555
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
[ QUOTE ] Well pilots aren't allowed to clean the gear handles anymore. [/ QUOTE ] I still feel like Lewis Black when I hear that. I just want to scream and hit something. You wonder what goes into people's mind sometimes. How damn anal-rententive are you if you have to clean a smudge off the gear handle in flight, TWICE!!!!!!? |
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June 16th, 2005, 23:39
| #93 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,833
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
Yeah, and what about in-range calls. Soon we'll have a 3-man cockpit. The extra pilot is there to ensure the other two aren't dumb ####s.
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June 16th, 2005, 23:48
| #94 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer
Posts: 3,190
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
Darn right ER...I cant believe that either, But seems people have to run a wet nap over every frickin thing.
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June 16th, 2005, 23:49
| #95 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 555
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
Especially when the station is too lazy to put a gate in and it comes up as "Not Assigned Yet." I guess we'll just taxi in circles until someone comes out and finds us. I guess George thinks we're babies.
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June 17th, 2005, 01:11
| #96 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,833
| Re: Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?
Sometimes I can't say I blame him.
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