Shined Shoes? Ironed Uniform?

[Alchemy]

I think I'd look better if the company didn't give me MC Hammer size pants to wear. I'm no slim jim but the uniform fitters must've taken me for chris farley during their visit. I'll still be paying those two pairs off for the next few months so I guess I'm stuck with the parachute pants for a while.

[FlyChicaga]

Just go get them tailored.

The captain I last flew with actually had his sleeves taken in, since he didn't like how they jutted out like "wings" almost. I'm thinking of doing the same.

The way I look at it:

Shirts, laundered, starched, pressed: $1 each
Pants, dry-cleaned, every two weeks: $4 each
Tie, dry-cleaned, every month: $2
Blazer, dry-cleaned, every month: $6
Shoe polish, 1 can, lasts about 1 year: $3
Old undershirt, to shine with: $0.05
Being able to walk around the terminal feeling proud and honored to wear this uniform: Priceless.

Obviously others (no, I'm not talking about anyone in this thread or on JC) do not carry the same feelings. It's too bad so many pilots lose pride in this uniform. I don't know ONE pilot who can say when they were younger they didn't look at the airline pilot uniform in awe. Somehow now, it's "cool" to "not care."

Plus, the argument "they don't pay me enough to look good" just doesn't fly AT ALL. I think the major reason we don't get paid like we should is directly related to the lack of respect that we pilots seem to have for ourselves. If YOU were management, would you want to pay a group of misfits $200,000 a year to look disheveled in a yellow-stained, wrinkled uniform? I think not.

Personally, I'm starting to understand why management has no respect for pilots. It's because the pilots have no respect for themselves. The same goes for paying passengers. If you spent $900 for a first-class seat right behind the flight deck, only to see a pilot who didn't comb his hair, didn't shave that morning, obviously didn't iron his well-worn out shirt, with half untied shoes that haven't seen polish, wearing massive sunglasses when the sun hasn't even broken the horizon, do you think you'd have gotten your money's worth? What about the flight attendants? Don't even get me started on that one.

I don't think that any pilot who looks like a seabag with lips should have any right to complain about a lack of respect from passengers or management. It's because they have a lack of respect for themselves. No, it doesn't have anything to do with physical attributes either. You can look together and respectful regardless of shape, size, skin color, or any of that.

Anyways, end of rant. For now. This is a sore issue for me.

[Alchemy]

Haha, I guess I qualify as "part of the problem". I had a captain a few months ago tell me I needed to iron my shirt more and wear some cologne. Then again, that was his first trip off IOE and he had about 4 years worth of advice bottled up for me on that wonderful 4 day.

I think that was the first trip where I didn't wear the blazer; I wasn't paying much attention to my shirt's condition during the winter since it was always covered. Needless to say, I now give the shirt and pants a once over every night and give them an ironing if I think they need it. I guess my shoes could use some shining though....

Honestly if you see someone with something grossly wrong with their uniform, why not go up and just tell them about it. It could be a clueless newhire like myself who needs these things pointed out to them before they have enough common sense to correct it.

[DE727UPS]

After hearing how important it is to you all to look great in your uniform, I'm just glad I fly night freight. I'm not so motived to look good and wish I could wear jeans and a t-shirt. I have a nice brown uniform and I wear it. It doesn't always look that great cause I have to cram it into my bag when I commercial to and from work. What the heck am I supposed to do? I'm not gonna go running around in that thing when I don't absolutely have to. Clip on ties are da bomb. I don't even know how to tie a real tie. I wear brown cowboy boots. I take one shirt on a three day trip and two shirts for more than a three day trip. I take one pair of brown slacks no matter how long the trip is. Danged if on the first day of my seven day Pac Rim trip I didn't spill some of that green wasabi stuff for my sushi on my one pair of pants. I was lucky it came off okay with one of those sani-wipe things. Got something on my shirt, too, but it was right where my tie covered it up. Did not necessitate an off-schedule shirt change. I'm telling ya, crew meals are dangerous.

When off duty, I'll change into my street clothes in the nastiest mens room stall at the first chance I get. That's just how much I like getting out of that uniform. I swear, the stress level goes down as soon as I get my jeans and baseball cap on.

Personally, I don't think what you look like relates much to how professionally you fly, but that's just me....

[ASpilot2be]

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After hearing how important it is to you all to look great in your uniform, I'm just glad I fly night freight. I'm not so motived to look good and wish I could wear jeans and a t-shirt. I have a nice brown uniform and I wear it. It doesn't always look that great cause I have to cram it into my bag when I commercial to and from work. What the heck am I supposed to do? I'm not gonna go running around in that thing when I don't absolutely have to. Clip on ties are da bomb. I don't even know how to tie a real tie. I wear brown cowboy boots. I take one shirt on a three day trip and two shirts for more than a three day trip. I take one pair of brown slacks no matter how long the trip is. Danged if on the first day of my seven day Pac Rim trip I didn't spill some of that green wasabi stuff for my sushi on my one pair of pants. I was lucky it came off okay with one of those sani-wipe things. Got something on my shirt, too, but it was right where my tie covered it up. Did not necessitate an off-schedule shirt change. I'm telling ya, crew meals are dangerous.

When off duty, I'll change into my street clothes in the nastiest mens room stall at the first chance I get. That's just how much I like getting out of that uniform. I swear, the stress level goes down as soon as I get my jeans and baseball cap on.

Personally, I don't think what you look like relates much to how professionally you fly, but that's just me....

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Sounds like the 732 Cargo pilots for AS up here. They were rubber boots or snow boots, and casual uniforms. Pretty cool.
Alec

[mtsu_av8er]

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Personally, I don't think what you look like relates much to how professionally you fly, but that's just me....

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You're 100% correct, 727! It has nothing to do at all with how professionally you fly!

Doesn't stop an interview panel from judging the way an potential new employee is dressed, does it?

[Mr_Creepy]

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After hearing how important it is to you all to look great in your uniform, I'm just glad I fly night freight. I'm not so motived to look good and wish I could wear jeans and a t-shirt.
...

Personally, I don't think what you look like relates much to how professionally you fly, but that's just me....

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Don I'm glad you spoke up. I agree with you 100%

While there are SOME personal hygiene issues that are pretty essential, I am not impressed with a starched shirt, a fancy cap, any tie, or any dress jacket.

They are completely non-functional for flying.

I've always wanted to wear one of those functional airforce flight suits with all the pockets in the airline cockpit. I think it looks more professional actually, since we're pilots, not lawyers!

I flew with slobs and I flew with neo-fascist-ex-military pilots that had shirts so starched and tight you could bounce a penny off of them. I didn't notice any real difference in flying skills between them.

I did notice, however, that the "uniform nazis" tended to be pretty anal about how they ran the cockpit (in the case of captains.) It took a little more adjustment to get along with them of course, but it was no big deal.

I was a middle of the road guy when it came to uniforms. I had my shirts professionally dry-cleaned to get the dirt out of them and put the creases in the sleeve, but you were just as likely to see me with an oil stain in the B1900 FO days, since we had to check the oil.

I didn't go out of my way to "look professional" as I've always felt actions speak louder than words. However, I can appreciate a crew that's smartly dressed and looking sharp as well.

Maybe it's different for me. I'm 6'1" and 270 lbs. I am a pretty imposing figure and maybe people who aren't "living large" like me don't command respect just from their size. On top of that I'm a cantakerous old fart who isn't afraid to get in anyone's face if the show disrespect as well

My parting shot to all you "good lookin' pilots" is that nobody cares how nice your uniform looks in the sim check. Most sim rides are done in jeans and a sport shirt.

Yeah it pays to look good, but it pays even more to perform.

[MikeD]

On a related note, do you guys like the airline movies, or even movies with airline portions, that show the flight crew flying in their complete uniform....jacket, cap and all?

[BCTAv8r]

Hell, I expect more than that out of the McDonald's employees.

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I sure picked the right job didn't I?

[Ralgha]

I agree that the uniform doesn't make the pilot, however you're forgetting that the public doesn't see it that way. If the public sees a crappy uniform, they think it's a crappy pilot as well. Bitch and moan about it all you want but that's not going to change that fact.

Because of the public's perception of the pilot's image, the companys require you to wear a uniform and look good. Why should an airline pay their pilots more when their pilots don't care how their uniform looks or what image they convey to the public?

Not like it's hard to keep the uniform looking good anyway.

[FlyChicaga]

I'm anal. I admit it. I like a clean, orderly cockpit, and I like following the rules. I keep all my stuff packed and arranged in my hotels on the overnight really orderly as well. Then there's my uniform. I try and keep it looking as good as I can. Same goes for hygeine. Why?

I want to a) present a professional appearance, and b) I want to be organized and together so when I need something, I know where to find it. I hate flying along, grabbing the paperwork to find the fuel burn expected at some fix, and having this huge jumble of paper to weed through because it's rolled up in a big mess. Or when I need to reference something in a particular manual, I like knowing exactly where it is, so I can reach back and get it without digging or searching.

I guess I'm one of "those guys" who feels better, and performs better, when I'm together and organized.

To each their own. If someone doesn't want to iron their shirt, or shine their shoes, it won't give me an ulcer. I only care about safe, effective flying. But if they start bitching about the lack of respect received from passengers, or management, I'll probably directly correlate their lack of self respect and cleanliness with how they are treated by people around them. It sucks, but that's the way of the world. People judge you by your appearance.

Am I the only one who have seen some pilots who look so together and sharp in their uniform (obviously taking pride in it) that you do a double take? Of course, on the flip side, I've done double takes looking at guys who probably slept in their uniform too.

[Doug Taylor]

I spilled some coffee on my tie this morning in the hotel van. And anyone who knows black polyester knows that it's going to leave a liquid stain for a few hours.

My first thought?

"Holy crap, what if I run into someone from the website and they're going to report that I looked like a slob!"

Ok, but I AM way overdue new uniform pants. I've got a small hole in one of the 'nether regions' that you'll never see unless I was aggressively pole dancing, but I've been instructed by the Mrs to order new pants during recurrent.

[ComplexHiAv8r]

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...instructed by the Mrs to order new pants during recurrent.

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On that, what is the cost to the pilot for uniforms? How many do they need to have? Thanks

[Doug Taylor]

Depends on who you work for.

I can meander down to the local Navy surplus store or BX and pick up a stanard Navy uniform, throw my buttons on and be legal.

At my previous airline, everything had to be purchased through the company store.

[DE727UPS]

Like Doug said, it depends on your company. At UPS, they give you the uniform parts but it's on a time cycle. So many shirts a year but if you want more, you pay for them.

[FlyChicaga]

At ExpressJet, we get $150 every June for new uniform items. Anything more than that, you need to pay for out of pocket. They don't require it be from the company supplier, either.

[DE727UPS]

"I'm anal. I admit it. I like a clean, orderly cockpit"

Do you fold the flight release a certain way? That's how I define overly anal. I once flew with a Capt that wanted the flight release folded just a certain way. I rolled my eyes and let him be the keeper of the flight release. I don't think I touched it.

How about this. Do you sanitze the cockpit area with one of those wipey thingys during your cockpit setup? About half the Capts I fly with do that. I mean they wipe down everything they might possibly touch. I've got no problem with the oxygen mask, I even do that, but the altimeter knobs?

[BrianNC]

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How about this. Do you sanitze the cockpit area with one of those wipey thingys during your cockpit setup? About half the Capts I fly with do that. I mean they wipe down everything they might possibly touch. I've got no problem with the oxygen mask, I even do that, but the altimeter knobs?

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I guess that is from the "you don't know where the hands of the last person that flew this plane have been" school of thought.

[Doug Taylor]

First leg: Captain: "I do everything by the book!"

Second leg: FO: "Which book is that again?"

[mtsu_av8er]

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If YOU were management, would you want to pay a group of misfits $200,000 a year to look disheveled in a yellow-stained, wrinkled uniform? I think not.

Personally, I'm starting to understand why management has no respect for pilots. It's because the pilots have no respect for themselves.

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There ya go!

[CapnJim]

HA! I flew with my first "by the book" captian the other day. He was anything but, as I suspect all such personalities are. He was also never short of advice to give me on my legs; such-and-such a descent rate, so-and-so on the speed. All were ignored, until I had leveled off/configured/hit 10 and 250 exactly at the fix. Then I would look over and say "Ok, what were you telling me again?"

Further pleasure was realized when I landed the first leg: a bit high in the roundout, and his bony hands were hovering near the yoke to take the plane away. He desisted, and under my control the jet settled smoothly on the runway, upwind main, downwind main, kiss the nosewheel, brakes, reversers, and the first highspeed. And I repeated the performance three times in a row. Admittedly, Christmas came early for me each time, but the beauty of it was that his landings were absolute crap. Planted the mains, ploped the nose, everytime. I never said a word. Didn't have to. He backed off on the last few legs and we both had plenty of breathing room in the cockpit.

[CapnJim]

Sheesh!
I look back at my posts and have to grimace at what a well-groomed, slick flying, Hotel Sierra FO I've painted myself out to be. What a compete load of crap! I have, OFTEN, smashed the jet on the runway as though I were going for the third wire, walked through the terminal with a terminally wrinked and/or stained shirt, and grievously and unforgiveably forgotten to dump the FO side trashcan of all my junk.

BUT! I don't make it a habit, like some. I try to keep myself squared away, do my best to fly smooth and efficient, and try to remember to init the FMS for the next crew. I guess it's a balance to be struck, like most other things in life. You don't want to be Gomer Pyle, but you don't want to act like you salute with three fingers and help little old ladies across the street on Saturdays either.

[Looking4Lower]

Now that I'm doing 135 pax, I'm particularly tuned into keeping the uniform sharp. I think it's probably a bit more important for this type of work than for 121 pax operations. Joe Schmoe just wants to pay for his $190 tickets and get from point A to point B - if he sees a sloppy uniform here and there it probably won't effect his travel habits.

But for the folks who are paying $2000- $3000 per flight hour in a chartered jet, I think that it's important for the pilots to maintain a high standard for their image. The pilots must interface much more closely with these passengers - they get a meet-and-greet, they get their bags personally handled, and they get served food/bevs in the cabin; the uniform is right in front of them all the time. They expect (and pay for) exclusive treatment and a sharp image is a part of that service.

[CapnJim]

You're right, but I think it goes for 121 pax as well. Yeah, joe shmoe with his FunFare dosen't care what the guy up front looks like, but if we're all not careful were going to wind up looking like cruiseship staff, with pastel waistcoats and lime green hats. The way some guys act, they are practically INVITING management to think thats a reall good idea. I can hear the suits now... "Well, since you all don't care what you look like anyway, here's your new uniform...:

[Doug Taylor]

The Leiderhosen are passable, but I'm SO NOT wearing that feather in the cap.