The Dilemma of the Century

Cheechako · June 2nd, 2005, 09:50

So here I am, a captain at a regional airline flying the CRJ with pretty good seniority in my domicile. I've got about 5500 hours with about 1600 hours of that jet PIC. I'm ripe for the picking by most major airline standards. But is that what I really want to do?

Life is pretty good right now. I work for a great company, fly great schedules with top-notch crews. We're building a beautiful brand-new house, have some great friends nearby and love the city we live in. I'm home far more nights than I'm away. I'm making enough money to provide for my family plus put some away for retirement and college for the kids.

When I first got into this airline business my ultimate goal was to get on with a certain major airline. They (like many others) have not hired since 9/11. Now they've taken major paycuts. It would take 3-4 years there to get back to the pay level I'm at right now. And probably 7-8 to get to the seniority level I'm at now (weekends off, short trips that keep me close to home).

The dilemma is to pursue moving on.
The pros:
+ Career advancement to a major airline
+ Top end pay is a lot more
+ Fly bigger jets
+ Be able to move closer to extended family
+ A pension

The cons:
- Back to the bottoom of the seniority list (bad for pay, schedules, job security)
- > 50% paycut first year
- It's going to cost at least $10K to move to a city where the cost of living is at least 10% more (with my family, commuting is not an option)

I'm just questioning if the years of sacrifice (at a time when my young family needs me most) is worth the top end pay and work rules of a major airline. I could fly the RJ my whole career- it's a great airplane, fun to fly and more advanced than many of the bigger airliners out there. The whole long-haul international flying does not appeal to me- I don't think I'd enjoy 36 hour layovers in crowded asian cities forcing my body clock to submit to a new time zone. Besides, those exotic places just aren't that fun without your loved ones to experience them with you!

I don't know what I'm missing by moving on. I don't know if the work rules at the major are really that much better to warrant a move. On the other hand, do I want to be that 55-year old regional airline pilot? Where will Skywest be 10-15-20 years down the line? Where will any of the present airlines be then?

I'm leaning more on staying right where I am. It seems to me the benefits staying here outweigh moving on... for at least the next 5-6 years. I know it's only going to get harder and harder to move on the longer I stay here...

...just a little bit of what's going on in my life....one thing's for sure, and the Believers out there will understand this: The God I worship and strive to please will open and close the doors for me. Whatever I do, as I strive to live my life according to His plan, I will succeed and life will be good! So I got that going for me... which is nice!!

crashmbern · June 2nd, 2005, 11:03

well if you apply the worst thing you can tell the airline is no. might hurt your chances later on if you try. but if you are gonna move on to the majors i would decide pretty soon if you want to move up. plus their is always corporate. if you find the right company it might really work well for you.

adam

CapnJim · June 2nd, 2005, 11:05

Sounds like you've already made your decision, and I think it's the right one!
You're happy man! Roll with it!
Seriously, you'll top out at about 100K with Sky West, assuming the pay scale is similar to my regional.You'll loose 8 years just getting back to where you were, with no guanantee that you'll like the company or that it will even be there (I'm assuming United...). And what will you top out at at the major? 150? 200? Not to mention that the higher tax bracket will eat up most of that, leaving you with a net gain of, what, 30K/yr.? Is it really worth it?

From everything I've heard, Sky West is a great company to work for, and you're flying a cool jet (.02M faster than mine

). You got your Faith, your Family, and your Future all laid out, and it looks good. I envy you man!

Cruise · June 2nd, 2005, 11:18

That's a great question/ dilema......I feel the same way. While I must qualify my statement by saying I'm not currently flying in the regionals or majors. Alas, I am currently instructing.....but the possibility of moving on to a regional is in my very near future.

That being said, I definitely will be moving on from instructin to a regional or 135 operation soon.....my dilema will begin then. Should I remain with the first company with whom I'm hired and gain the seniority/ comfort level that comes with time....or do I continue the struggle to the majors. I'm already 33 (soon to be 34)...as such, I need to start planning for retirement, realizing that it is still in the distant future. So, it seems to me that I will need the stability that seniority brings....being "slightly" furlough proof. No one is ever completely secure....it's the nature of the business and I realize that. Nevertheless, retirement must be planned for. We all know how "fast time flies."

So, I too am curious to hear what others think about this subject.

Doug Taylor · June 2nd, 2005, 12:13

I don' t think it's that much of a dilemma. Just compare what you're doing now with what you ultimately want to do and there ya go.

Everyone got to where they are because they were able to 'stay hungry' and didn't get altogether too comfortable along the way. If the decision is difficult now, just wait to see how difficult it's going to be in five more years. Besides, if 51% of Skywest pilots vote "Pay cuts for new jets!" in the future, that probationary pay difference at the other airline isn't going to look that bad, but the opportunity may be lost.

Personally, after almost a decade of flying domestic narrowbodies, I'm bored to tears. If I didn't have the opportunity for advancement into other aircraft and transoceanic operations, I'd be looking at Truckmasters.

BrianNC · June 2nd, 2005, 12:50

[ QUOTE ]
....one thing's for sure, and the Believers out there will understand this: The God I worship and strive to please will open and close the doors for me. Whatever I do, as I strive to live my life according to His plan, I will succeed and life will be good! So I got that going for me... which is nice!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you have your priorities in order and know what is really important in life. As another said, sounds like you have already made the decision. Let that peace be your guide.

Col 3:15 (Amplified) And let the peace (soul harmony which comes) from Christ rule (act as umpire continually) in your hearts [deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds, in that peaceful state]...

Kristie · June 2nd, 2005, 13:25

with the cyclical nature that the airline industry is in and just with typing up the thread, it sounds as if you have already made up your mind!

go forth and conquer - just follow your heart!

MQAAord · June 2nd, 2005, 13:32

First, I guess I'm a bit confused, where is the dilemna? Is this airline hiring right now that you're considering applying or not applying? If they're not hiring, why worry yourself with these kinds of thoughts. Enjoy where you are, and if/when they start hiring again, re-asses your life and make your desicion then.

[ QUOTE ]
Where will Skywest be 10-15-20 years down the line? Where will any of the present airlines be then?

[/ QUOTE ]

That statement right there is precisely why I said what I said above. There are NO GUARANTEES that SkyWest or any other carrier that is around now will still exist in 10, 20 or 30 years, or what capacity they'll be existing in.

Make your decisions based on the information you have available to you at the time. My decision to leave Eagle to go to AA got me furloughed, and ultimately ended my career. Bill's decision to leave TWA for Delta ended up keeping him from being furloughed. There's no magic crystal ball. If you're happy where you are right now, stay. When that major starts hiring, you can think about it then. Maybe you'll stay, maybe you'll go.

Texguy · June 2nd, 2005, 13:56

juskl · June 2nd, 2005, 14:19

There is a poem out there that goes something like this....

I was a child, but it was a teenage life I wanted. The excitement, the responsibility, the fun...

I was a teenager, but it was the early 20;s I wanted to be. The newness, the freedom, the excitement of early adulthood, the ability to be whatever I wanted to be.

I was in my 20's, but it was the 30's I wanted. To be mature and going forth on my career. To have confidence and to be respected.

I was in my 30's, but it was middle age I wanted. To be financially secure and seeing a life of leasure soon to come.

I was middle age, but it was retirement age I wanted. The freedom to not work and just enjoy life. To travel and see places I always wanted to see.

I was retired, but it was youth I wanted................

As has been stated, you already know what you want to do. There is no greater satisfaction, than being satisfied.... Enjoy.

kellwolf · June 2nd, 2005, 15:36

Honestly, it sounds like you're happy right where you are doing what you're doing. It looks like it works out well with the family situation, odds are you'll have to take a pay cut to start at the bottom of a seniority list at a major (which would cut into the savings and the college fund), you wouldn't enjoy to QoL you have with your seniority at Skywest, and it sounds like you're perfectly happy flying the CRJ. If it were me, unless a killer deal opened up, I'd stay put. Not a lot of pilots are as happy with their companies as the ones I hear talking about SkyWest. As far as where it could be 10-15-20 years from now, the same can even be said of Southwest. It's the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing. And if you do wind up being that 55 year old CRJ captain, if you're happy and enjoying life, who cares?

Cheechako · June 2nd, 2005, 16:14

Yeah, I think I've made my decision... for now at least! It's just the "what-if-factor."

Life is good, so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and love life!

project7 · June 2nd, 2005, 19:29

Glad to hear that you're sticking around Chris. Come by LAX and say hi sometime.

fender_jag · June 2nd, 2005, 20:05

You've got your ducks in a row; let things play out! My credo is everything happens for a reason. Whatever decision you go with will be the correct one. It may not make sense at the time but you're always right where you should be.

Cheechako · June 2nd, 2005, 20:23

I'll be coming through LAX all next month. I've got a 3hr break every Monday and Wednesday starting on the 13th... In fact, I'll be in LAX over night on the 7th. Gonna go see Star Wars... anyone want to come? Probably the 6 or 7pm showing. PM me if you want in... Culver City.

FlyChicaga · June 3rd, 2005, 15:13

[ QUOTE ]
...and if/when they start hiring again, re-asses your life and make your desicion then.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're a flight attendant, so I'll quote View From The Top:

"It's assess. You put the wrong emphaasssiss on the wrong sylaahhble."

MQAAord · June 3rd, 2005, 17:12

You know, I thought when I wrote that, that 'asses' looked wrong! I just didn't have the ambition to look it up

Assess. My bad.

And, yes, I just about fell out of my seat when I saw that scene. Having been an instructor made it doublely funny.

Cheechako · June 3rd, 2005, 17:39

Not bad advice, Amber, when you think about it. When you spend a long enough time in one seat, you may need to reasess the need to re-ass!!

aloft · June 3rd, 2005, 18:42

I responded privately to Chris, but in thinking about it, the carriers best poised to be around in 15-20 years are the ones capitalizing on economic globalization--and none of them carry passengers. Boxes are never afraid to fly.

mrivc211 · June 4th, 2005, 16:41

Chris- I think because of your easy going personality, positive approach on life, and glass always half full(instead of half empty) attitude, your going to be fine where ever lifes endeavors take you. I'm a firm beleiver in good karma, and since you have plenty of it, I think you'll be capable of doing whatever you want.

PS- I know a guy at Eagle, that knows a guy at Mesa, that knows a guy at ASA that knows a guy at Fedex. That is if Fedex is good enough?

Just kidding seagull-before you go blacklisting me!

Alaskaairlines · June 6th, 2005, 21:33

Very nice post Chris. I'm glad to see that your family is more important to you than moving on and starting all over again at a major.
I'm sure you'll be just fine when your that 55 year old captain in a big jet or the RJ - it is all about your own personal values you set in life. God Bless.

kellwolf · June 7th, 2005, 23:05

[ QUOTE ]
PS- I know a guy at Eagle, that knows a guy at Mesa, that knows a guy at ASA that knows a guy at Fedex. That is if Fedex is good enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, the Tunica Air Races looked like the FedEx company picnic. I talked to a LOT of FedEx pilots while I was there, but I was like "No, no. I just want to talk. I only have 260 hours, so you'll probably be retired by the time I reach mins."

June 2nd, 2005, 09:50	#1
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 981	The Dilemma of the Century So here I am, a captain at a regional airline flying the CRJ with pretty good seniority in my domicile. I've got about 5500 hours with about 1600 hours of that jet PIC. I'm ripe for the picking by most major airline standards. But is that what I really want to do? Life is pretty good right now. I work for a great company, fly great schedules with top-notch crews. We're building a beautiful brand-new house, have some great friends nearby and love the city we live in. I'm home far more nights than I'm away. I'm making enough money to provide for my family plus put some away for retirement and college for the kids. When I first got into this airline business my ultimate goal was to get on with a certain major airline. They (like many others) have not hired since 9/11. Now they've taken major paycuts. It would take 3-4 years there to get back to the pay level I'm at right now. And probably 7-8 to get to the seniority level I'm at now (weekends off, short trips that keep me close to home). The dilemma is to pursue moving on. The pros: + Career advancement to a major airline + Top end pay is a lot more + Fly bigger jets + Be able to move closer to extended family + A pension The cons: - Back to the bottoom of the seniority list (bad for pay, schedules, job security) - > 50% paycut first year - It's going to cost at least $10K to move to a city where the cost of living is at least 10% more (with my family, commuting is not an option) I'm just questioning if the years of sacrifice (at a time when my young family needs me most) is worth the top end pay and work rules of a major airline. I could fly the RJ my whole career- it's a great airplane, fun to fly and more advanced than many of the bigger airliners out there. The whole long-haul international flying does not appeal to me- I don't think I'd enjoy 36 hour layovers in crowded asian cities forcing my body clock to submit to a new time zone. Besides, those exotic places just aren't that fun without your loved ones to experience them with you! I don't know what I'm missing by moving on. I don't know if the work rules at the major are really that much better to warrant a move. On the other hand, do I want to be that 55-year old regional airline pilot? Where will Skywest be 10-15-20 years down the line? Where will any of the present airlines be then? I'm leaning more on staying right where I am. It seems to me the benefits staying here outweigh moving on... for at least the next 5-6 years. I know it's only going to get harder and harder to move on the longer I stay here... ...just a little bit of what's going on in my life....one thing's for sure, and the Believers out there will understand this: The God I worship and strive to please will open and close the doors for me. Whatever I do, as I strive to live my life according to His plan, I will succeed and life will be good! So I got that going for me... which is nice!!

June 2nd, 2005, 11:03	#2
crashmbern Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 509	Re: The Dilemma of the Century well if you apply the worst thing you can tell the airline is no. might hurt your chances later on if you try. but if you are gonna move on to the majors i would decide pretty soon if you want to move up. plus their is always corporate. if you find the right company it might really work well for you. adam

June 2nd, 2005, 11:05	#3
CapnJim Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: All up in Cantubury, tellin' tales. Posts: 4,444	Re: The Dilemma of the Century Sounds like you've already made your decision, and I think it's the right one! You're happy man! Roll with it! Seriously, you'll top out at about 100K with Sky West, assuming the pay scale is similar to my regional.You'll loose 8 years just getting back to where you were, with no guanantee that you'll like the company or that it will even be there (I'm assuming United...). And what will you top out at at the major? 150? 200? Not to mention that the higher tax bracket will eat up most of that, leaving you with a net gain of, what, 30K/yr.? Is it really worth it? From everything I've heard, Sky West is a great company to work for, and you're flying a cool jet (.02M faster than mine ). You got your Faith, your Family, and your Future all laid out, and it looks good. I envy you man!

June 2nd, 2005, 11:18	#4
Cruise Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SYR, ABE Posts: 2,260	Re: The Dilemma of the Century That's a great question/ dilema......I feel the same way. While I must qualify my statement by saying I'm not currently flying in the regionals or majors. Alas, I am currently instructing.....but the possibility of moving on to a regional is in my very near future. That being said, I definitely will be moving on from instructin to a regional or 135 operation soon.....my dilema will begin then. Should I remain with the first company with whom I'm hired and gain the seniority/ comfort level that comes with time....or do I continue the struggle to the majors. I'm already 33 (soon to be 34)...as such, I need to start planning for retirement, realizing that it is still in the distant future. So, it seems to me that I will need the stability that seniority brings....being "slightly" furlough proof. No one is ever completely secure....it's the nature of the business and I realize that. Nevertheless, retirement must be planned for. We all know how "fast time flies." So, I too am curious to hear what others think about this subject.

June 2nd, 2005, 12:13	#5
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Dilemma of the Century I don' t think it's that much of a dilemma. Just compare what you're doing now with what you ultimately want to do and there ya go. Everyone got to where they are because they were able to 'stay hungry' and didn't get altogether too comfortable along the way. If the decision is difficult now, just wait to see how difficult it's going to be in five more years. Besides, if 51% of Skywest pilots vote "Pay cuts for new jets!" in the future, that probationary pay difference at the other airline isn't going to look that bad, but the opportunity may be lost. Personally, after almost a decade of flying domestic narrowbodies, I'm bored to tears. If I didn't have the opportunity for advancement into other aircraft and transoceanic operations, I'd be looking at Truckmasters.

June 2nd, 2005, 12:50	#6
BrianNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 817	Re: The Dilemma of the Century [ QUOTE ] ....one thing's for sure, and the Believers out there will understand this: The God I worship and strive to please will open and close the doors for me. Whatever I do, as I strive to live my life according to His plan, I will succeed and life will be good! So I got that going for me... which is nice!! [/ QUOTE ] Sounds like you have your priorities in order and know what is really important in life. As another said, sounds like you have already made the decision. Let that peace be your guide. Col 3:15 (Amplified) And let the peace (soul harmony which comes) from Christ rule (act as umpire continually) in your hearts [deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds, in that peaceful state]...

June 2nd, 2005, 13:25	#7
Kristie Big Chief's Woman Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 18,213 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Dilemma of the Century with the cyclical nature that the airline industry is in and just with typing up the thread, it sounds as if you have already made up your mind! go forth and conquer - just follow your heart!

June 2nd, 2005, 13:32	#8
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 9,179	Re: The Dilemma of the Century First, I guess I'm a bit confused, where is the dilemna? Is this airline hiring right now that you're considering applying or not applying? If they're not hiring, why worry yourself with these kinds of thoughts. Enjoy where you are, and if/when they start hiring again, re-asses your life and make your desicion then. [ QUOTE ] Where will Skywest be 10-15-20 years down the line? Where will any of the present airlines be then? [/ QUOTE ] That statement right there is precisely why I said what I said above. There are NO GUARANTEES that SkyWest or any other carrier that is around now will still exist in 10, 20 or 30 years, or what capacity they'll be existing in. Make your decisions based on the information you have available to you at the time. My decision to leave Eagle to go to AA got me furloughed, and ultimately ended my career. Bill's decision to leave TWA for Delta ended up keeping him from being furloughed. There's no magic crystal ball. If you're happy where you are right now, stay. When that major starts hiring, you can think about it then. Maybe you'll stay, maybe you'll go.

June 2nd, 2005, 13:56	#9
Texguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KAUS Posts: 850	Re: The Dilemma of the Century

June 2nd, 2005, 14:19	#10
juskl Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 253	Re: The Dilemma of the Century There is a poem out there that goes something like this.... I was a child, but it was a teenage life I wanted. The excitement, the responsibility, the fun... I was a teenager, but it was the early 20;s I wanted to be. The newness, the freedom, the excitement of early adulthood, the ability to be whatever I wanted to be. I was in my 20's, but it was the 30's I wanted. To be mature and going forth on my career. To have confidence and to be respected. I was in my 30's, but it was middle age I wanted. To be financially secure and seeing a life of leasure soon to come. I was middle age, but it was retirement age I wanted. The freedom to not work and just enjoy life. To travel and see places I always wanted to see. I was retired, but it was youth I wanted................ As has been stated, you already know what you want to do. There is no greater satisfaction, than being satisfied.... Enjoy.

June 2nd, 2005, 15:36	#11
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,687	Re: The Dilemma of the Century Honestly, it sounds like you're happy right where you are doing what you're doing. It looks like it works out well with the family situation, odds are you'll have to take a pay cut to start at the bottom of a seniority list at a major (which would cut into the savings and the college fund), you wouldn't enjoy to QoL you have with your seniority at Skywest, and it sounds like you're perfectly happy flying the CRJ. If it were me, unless a killer deal opened up, I'd stay put. Not a lot of pilots are as happy with their companies as the ones I hear talking about SkyWest. As far as where it could be 10-15-20 years from now, the same can even be said of Southwest. It's the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing. And if you do wind up being that 55 year old CRJ captain, if you're happy and enjoying life, who cares?

June 2nd, 2005, 16:14	#12
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 981	Re: The Dilemma of the Century Yeah, I think I've made my decision... for now at least! It's just the "what-if-factor." Life is good, so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and love life!

June 2nd, 2005, 19:29	#13
project7 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 430	Re: The Dilemma of the Century Glad to hear that you're sticking around Chris. Come by LAX and say hi sometime.

June 2nd, 2005, 20:05	#14
fender_jag Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 1,247	Re: The Dilemma of the Century You've got your ducks in a row; let things play out! My credo is everything happens for a reason. Whatever decision you go with will be the correct one. It may not make sense at the time but you're always right where you should be.

June 2nd, 2005, 20:23	#15
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 981	Re: The Dilemma of the Century I'll be coming through LAX all next month. I've got a 3hr break every Monday and Wednesday starting on the 13th... In fact, I'll be in LAX over night on the 7th. Gonna go see Star Wars... anyone want to come? Probably the 6 or 7pm showing. PM me if you want in... Culver City.

June 3rd, 2005, 15:13	#16
FlyChicaga Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,821	Re: The Dilemma of the Century [ QUOTE ] ...and if/when they start hiring again, re-asses your life and make your desicion then. [/ QUOTE ] You're a flight attendant, so I'll quote View From The Top: "It's assess. You put the wrong emphaasssiss on the wrong sylaahhble."

June 3rd, 2005, 17:12	#17
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 9,179	Re: The Dilemma of the Century You know, I thought when I wrote that, that 'asses' looked wrong! I just didn't have the ambition to look it up Assess. My bad. And, yes, I just about fell out of my seat when I saw that scene. Having been an instructor made it doublely funny.

June 3rd, 2005, 17:39	#18
Cheechako Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 981	Re: The Dilemma of the Century Not bad advice, Amber, when you think about it. When you spend a long enough time in one seat, you may need to reasess the need to re-ass!!

June 3rd, 2005, 18:42	#19
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,866	Re: The Dilemma of the Century I responded privately to Chris, but in thinking about it, the carriers best poised to be around in 15-20 years are the ones capitalizing on economic globalization--and none of them carry passengers. Boxes are never afraid to fly.

June 4th, 2005, 16:41	#20
mrivc211 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 2,037	Re: The Dilemma of the Century Chris- I think because of your easy going personality, positive approach on life, and glass always half full(instead of half empty) attitude, your going to be fine where ever lifes endeavors take you. I'm a firm beleiver in good karma, and since you have plenty of it, I think you'll be capable of doing whatever you want. PS- I know a guy at Eagle, that knows a guy at Mesa, that knows a guy at ASA that knows a guy at Fedex. That is if Fedex is good enough? Just kidding seagull-before you go blacklisting me!

June 6th, 2005, 21:33	#21
Alaskaairlines Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Wasilla, AK Posts: 74	Re: The Dilemma of the Century Very nice post Chris. I'm glad to see that your family is more important to you than moving on and starting all over again at a major. I'm sure you'll be just fine when your that 55 year old captain in a big jet or the RJ - it is all about your own personal values you set in life. God Bless.

June 7th, 2005, 23:05	#22
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,687	Re: The Dilemma of the Century [ QUOTE ] PS- I know a guy at Eagle, that knows a guy at Mesa, that knows a guy at ASA that knows a guy at Fedex. That is if Fedex is good enough? [/ QUOTE ] Man, the Tunica Air Races looked like the FedEx company picnic. I talked to a LOT of FedEx pilots while I was there, but I was like "No, no. I just want to talk. I only have 260 hours, so you'll probably be retired by the time I reach mins."

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