I keep hearing paycut, paycut, paycut, but???

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Trident

While I will never question someone who wants to voice their own opinion, I would kindly ask that you not piss off CJ...

Not because he is right or wrong, but because I think every one on here owes him some respect...like him or not...just for the simple fact that he is probably one of the most "popular" members on here--in terms of providing information and his prospective on the ATC world and taking his time to answer messages when ever he can...

I think most on here would agree that he has been a big help to those in the process

at least lawngnome can share his opinion sans the anger. he's actually HELPFUL. CJ sounds like he should have retired years ago. for some people nothing is ever enough.

[Trident]

Originally Posted by Philip

at least lawngnome can share his opinion sans the anger. he's actually HELPFUL. CJ sounds like he should have retired years ago. for some people nothing is ever enough.

I agree with that, and I am not saying that CJ or LawnGnome is right or wrong in this issue....

Call him pissed off or grumpy, I'll take CJ's advice over someone else any day, just for the simple fact that he has the experience

[LawnGnome]

I think ATL TRACON pisses himself off....Just about anything anybody says pisses him off so its a lose lose situation either way. He went on a rant for no reason....then lowering himself to bashing someone for not spell checking....that's classic....you better watch out in your post too for the grammar...looks like he's on a war path. There was no reason to get an attitude with what I posted just because I am not bashing my employer...You can't argue with what I stated to begin with. You can check out in any FAA facility in three years...even as a new hire...not everyone can or will...some will wash out like I stated, but it has been done...and will continue to be done....

Take what he says with a grain of salt because 90% of his posts come with negativitey about the job. If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said, there would be no way I would apply to work with the FAA.

Maybe where he works it's miserable...but that certainly doesn't reflect the FAA as a whole and you need to be aware of that, even if he doesn't like it.

I'm sure he provides valuable information as well, but I'm not going to give someone respect that can't respect the opinion of others without bashing them. Feel free to read over all my posts...I would say 90% of them will probably benefit you...and none of them comes out of no where and bashes someone just because their opinion differs.

[sub-stdrd phrsology girl]

Originally Posted by LawnGnome

I think ATL TRACON pisses himself off....Just about anything anybody says pisses him off so its a lose lose situation either way. He went on a rant for no reason He went on a rant because you've just gone "full retard. Never go full retard". What you're stating about the job is a naiive point of view. You can check out at ANY facility in three years? Puleeese. BTW SoCal may handle more traffic but they're also have a lot more space to do it in, considering, you know that they have half of California to control. Compare that to A80's airspace. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.....then lowering himself to bashing someone for not spell checking....that's classic....you better watch out in your post too for the grammar...looks like he's on a war path. There was no reason to get an attitude with what I posted just because I am not bashing my employer...You can't argue with what I stated to begin with. You can check out in any FAA facility in three years...even as a new hire...not everyone can or will Now you're just contradicting yourself you're saying that you can check out in ANY facility in three years, but not really cause some people can't...I doubt that anyone prolongs their training considering being a CPC you make more. Oh and over 100K? That's with locality, considering California is one of the most expensive places to live, take a look at his base pay and tell me he's making over 100K...some will wash out like I stated, but it has been done...and will continue to be done....

Take what he says with a grain of salt because 90% of his posts come with negativitey about the job And negativity makes them less true?. If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said, there would be no way I would apply to work with the FAA Then get the hell out, it's about the love of the job in spite of what's going on politically within the facilities.

Maybe where he works it's miserable...but that certainly doesn't reflect the FAA as a whole and you need to be aware of that, even if he doesn't like it You're right there's the good and the bad managers, but the bad far exceed the good. You'd think they'd need to know something about the airspace before they give someone a check ride or try to go on position with a new trainee, considering they are supposed to be proficient still. Or how about showing someone who was sick AWOL, or sending someone home (using his annual leave) to change his golf socks for dress socks, or sending yet another controller home because her capris had pockets on them, I can go on all day with stories from many different facilities, so keep your naiive BS about the FAA coming.

I'm sure he provides valuable information as well, but I'm not going to give someone respect that can't respect the opinion of others without bashing them He's just telling you how it is, don't like it tough. He didn't disrespect your opinion TRACON was stating that you have a very simplistic view of what actually goes on during training or within the facility. Feel free to read over all my posts...I would say 90% of them will probably benefit you All your posts, at least on this thread, don't give any semebelance of helpful information what so ever. Telling people you can check out in ANY facility in three years is not helpful, it's "full retard"...and none of them comes out of no where and bashes someone just because their opinion differs Check your above posts and tell me that.

BTW, can anyone tell that I've seen "Tropic Thunder"? Lol

[queeno]

id really like to post my opinion on this but i dont want some cry baby nubees running to the moderatiors to have me banned from the site again because the truth hurts some times so all ill say is ,


what CJ says "DITTO"

[BoomerSooner77]

Can't we all just get along?!

[LawnGnome]

I think ATL TRACON pisses himself off....Just about anything anybody says pisses him off so its a lose lose situation either way. He went on a rant for no reason He went on a rant because you've just gone "full retard. Never go full retard". What you're stating about the job is a naiive point of view. You can check out at ANY facility in three years? Puleeese. BTW SoCal may handle more traffic but they're also have a lot more space to do it in, considering, you know that they have half of California to control. Compare that to A80's airspace. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it. Where did you come from? So...your definition of a "full retard" is stating that you can make 100K in three years and you can also check out in any FAA facility in three years? It's true...sorry if you think that is retarded...that's a fact. What is naiive about my point of view? It's the truth...call a few facilities...ask ATL TRACON to call his QA department and ask them what is the quickest a new hire has checked out here. You not believing that you can check out in three years is naiive. Like I stated in my last post or two about specific facilities....people will spin it one way or the other to make their facility look like the busiest...most complex...this and that...I'm not knocking A80, or ATL, or whatever...they are busy facilities, I'm sure very tough as well...every facility presents their own unique challenges that make them tough...ATL TRACON is the one bashing on other peoples facilities....then lowering himself to bashing someone for not spell checking....that's classic....you better watch out in your post too for the grammar...looks like he's on a war path. There was no reason to get an attitude with what I posted just because I am not bashing my employer...You can't argue with what I stated to begin with. You can check out in any FAA facility in three years...even as a new hire...not everyone can or will Now you're just contradicting yourself you're saying that you can check out in ANY facility in three years, but not really cause some people can't...I doubt that anyone prolongs their training considering being a CPC you make more. Oh and over 100K? That's with locality, considering California is one of the most expensive places to live, take a look at his base pay and tell me he's making over 100K Some people can't...I know...read my first post...that's what I said...some people will wash out...some will take longer...I said that in my first post...but it is possible to check out in 3 years and make 100K in three years...I answered that guys question truthfully....and ATL TRACON wants to bash...and now you do...that is the truth...Yes that is with locality...I never said it wasn't...if you look an FAA Earnings and Leave Statement at the salary portion...it includes locality. By the way...locality has nothing to do with cost of living. They don't award SoCal a high locality because it is an expensive place to live......some will wash out like I stated, but it has been done...and will continue to be done....

Take what he says with a grain of salt because 90% of his posts come with negativitey about the job And negativity makes them less true?. It doesn't make them less true...just heavily bias towards the negative parts of the job. If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said, there would be no way I would apply to work with the FAA Then get the hell out, it's about the love of the job in spite of what's going on politically within the facilities. Read what you are responding to...I said "If I was an atc applicant and believed everything he said." First, you can't get out of the FAA if you aren't in...Second...I work for the Department of Transportation already...3rd...I don't believe everything he says. I love the job...that's probably the only thing I could agree on with ATL TRACON...but from his posts...it doesn't seem he has much love for it.

Maybe where he works it's miserable...but that certainly doesn't reflect the FAA as a whole and you need to be aware of that, even if he doesn't like it You're right there's the good and the bad managers, but the bad far exceed the good. Are you in the FAA? Maybe at certain places the bad exceed the good...I would say the good managers far exceed the bad, just my opinion and you are free to have yours...You'd think they'd need to know something about the airspace before they give someone a check ride or try to go on position with a new trainee, considering they are supposed to be proficient still. Or how about showing someone who was sick AWOL, or sending someone home (using his annual leave) to change his golf socks for dress socks, or sending yet another controller home because her capris had pockets on them, I can go on all day with stories from many different facilities, so keep your naiive BS about the FAA coming. Again...are you in the FAA? There are places that are bad...there are bad managers...you are like CNN only reporting negative crap...there is plenty good to go around as well....you just thinking everything sucks is naiive...are you sure this isn't ATL TRACON? you must hang around him way to much.

I'm sure he provides valuable information as well, but I'm not going to give someone respect that can't respect the opinion of others without bashing them He's just telling you how it is, don't like it tough. He didn't disrespect your opinion TRACON was stating that you have a very simplistic view of what actually goes on during training or within the facility. Calling me ignorant is disrespecting my opinion...I never came out and dimed him out for being a hater until he called me out. Feel free to read over all my posts...I would say 90% of them will probably benefit you All your posts, at least on this thread, don't give any semebelance of helpful information what so ever. Telling people you can check out in ANY facility in three years is not helpful, it's "full retard"...I'll say it again, you can check out in any faa facility in three years...it has happened, and will continue to happen. Not everyone will like I have stated before...some will take longer, some will wash out...but it is possible...just answering the guys question. Until you have some factual data that supports that otherwise don't say it can't happen. and none of them comes out of no where and bashes someone just because their opinion differs Check your above posts and tell me that. I did...that above post didn't come out of no where...it came after I got bashed for providing the truth.

quit hating, I'm done, this has already gone way farther than it should have...prove me otherwise, you won't be able to...

[SkierMatt]

I see a rainbow.


btw welcome back queeno! (was wondering what happened)

[Sunburn]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I know I am opening myself up to get shot from both sides here. As you can see from my signature, I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE FAA YET! However, I do have a couple to things I would like to said, and I am making my own point I am not taking sides.

First, it is possible, however unlikely, to be sided off at any FAA facility in under three (3) years. [Please note that a 1:1,000,000 chance is still a possibility, but an improbability] I am sure LG knows/has heard of someone getting checked out at a level 12 tower and SCT in under three years. However, call it negatively or practicality, ATLTRACON, is simply stating what we all should understand, if you are at a level 12(+) do not expect to be checked out in 3 years, but if you put your nose to the grindstone (Figurative only, please) you will make it through in a reasonible time frame.

I doubt anyone really cares what they are making without locality when they cash their paycheck. [If you do care, please report immediately to NATCA so you can lobby for the entire FAA to get a pay raise] I will be making around 40k to start when I get to Stockton Tower, when I complete OKC, yes that is within the Bay Area locality, yes that is like 32% locality, I know that the base pay is only in the low to mid 30,000s. But guess what, as long as I am making a reasonable amount of money and I love pushing tin like I think I will, I'm a happy camper.

Last point I want to make. ATC is not all rainbows and unicorn farts, nor is it all asisine management vs the "Our lowily hero, the Controller". I am sure that there are some really asisine managers out there that the people that work under them want do stuff so horrible I will not even consider typing it here. But I am also sure that there are the managers that you would go deep sea fishing with for two days because they are just that cool. In the end, all I can say about managers is they got there some how, love them or hate them, they are you boss. [Please note, I just walked out on a manager of a car dealership because he wouldn't provide a safety net if I didn't make enough money in this awful economy, but I would have stayed if he had treated me, and the rest of the crew, like we were human beings, if I wanted to be treated like a maggot I would of bucked up the pain and continued through MCRD San Diego, into the Marine Corps to be shouted at some more, paid little, and live in a condemed hut mile from civilization. I guess I could still do that, maybe I'll do down by the recuiting off, behind the Goodwill.]

[LawnGnome]

Good post sunburn.

Really to be honest...it isn't unlikely to check out in any FAA facility in three years like you stated. Maybe it is unlikely at certain FAA facilities...

Here is a quote straight from the FAA....on the FAA Follies website...a site that points out all of managements mistakes...and the FAA Follie staff did not disagree with this statement:

“The most recent data shows that average training time to achieve CPC status is 1.4 years for terminal controllers, and 2.6 years for en route controllers.”

That's average...obviously certain places take longer...certain people take longer...things like that...but as an average.

Here is another quote from the bureau of labor statistics:

"Generally, it takes new controllers with only initial controller training between 2 and 4 years, depending on the facility and the availability of facility staff or contractors to provide on-the-job training, to complete all the certification requirements to become certified professional controllers."

[Rosstafari]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner77

Can't we all just get along?!

Really. Not everyone is going to agree with your point of view... deal with it.

ATL and LG, I like y'all a lot better when you're not fighting.

And, much love to both for coming here and sharing advice, but I don't think either of you has an all-encompassing grasp of every single tower and center across the nation. Atlanta != Houston != SoCal != "Throughout the Nation". You're both controllers with years in the double-digits, so obviously you're both speaking from plenty of experience. If there's a discrepancy, chalk it up to regional differences and personal opinions instead of just assuming the other one is ignorant. That's obviously not the case.

Originally Posted by sub-stdrd phrsology girl

All your posts, at least on this thread, don't give any semebelance of helpful information what so ever.

I beg to differ. Explaining PEPC questions, how hubs work, offering to help a few people get in touch with hub managers, personally inviting someone to tour his facility, offering encouragement and things that he likes about his job after doing it for ten years...

That's a lot more than a "semblance" of helpful information.

[bigdil511]

I don't see how you can say that you can't check out at a level 12 within 3 years, I beg to differ actually even at ZNY the average check out is just over 3 years, for a while it was under 3 years, now with staffing shortages the trainees don't get enough time and once they are checked out at a few positions they are put to work instead of getting more training on other positions, hence increasing the process. I know someone at ZNY that is fully certified after 2 years and 6 months, and is making over 100K (yes including 26% locality) and with the amount of overtime he is working will be pushing 150K this year. This statement is a matter of fact not opinion and ZNY is a level 12. Also he is not working ocean so dont even say that b/c we all know ocean traffic is much different than radar. It is possible and most won't b/c a lot of the bigger facilities are short qualifed people to do training, and other qualified people will not train. Really not a reflection on the people going into training more like the fact the FAA does not have enough readily available people willing and qualified to do the training.

[ATC Hopeful]

I plan on checking out in six months no matter where i go

[Rosstafari]

Originally Posted by ATC Hopeful

I plan on checking out in six months no matter where i go

Six months? Forget that. Download this and you're ready to go.

Extra credit for watching Pushing Tin and Ground Control.

[SkierMatt]

good post sunburn! hope to have a beer with u in okc

[Sunburn]

Originally Posted by SkierMatt

good post sunburn! hope to have a beer with u in okc

You're on Matt, Go Steelers!

[ATLTRACON]

Daughter leaves in 6 days...I'll be there the week of Oct. 13th...let's all get together and have beers.

[SkierMatt]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

Daughter leaves in 6 days...I'll be there the week of Oct. 13th...let's all get together and have beers.

I would like to take u up on that, however I won't be there till about Oct 18th. I'll take you up on some team slayer though.

Sunburn: Yes go steelers! we will have to get some beers and watch a steelers game or 5

[Trident]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

Daughter leaves in 6 days...I'll be there the week of Oct. 13th...let's all get together and have beers.

You gonna buy? I'm so there

[Sunburn]

It is a pity I am going to miss you ATLTRACON, I won't be in OKC until 6NOV08. But if you get a bug under your armor and want to come up and see your daughter, I'll have a beer with you... just make sure it is a Wednesday at Walnut Gardens. I play I play...

Matt: Hopefully we can go all the way this year, and beat the Giants in the Bowl... just so I can rub it in my ex's face lol.

[thesoonerkid]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

Daughter leaves in 6 days...I'll be there the week of Oct. 13th...let's all get together and have beers.

i live here. you going to be here the whole week?

[ATLTRACON]

Planning on being there the afternoon of the 10th until the afternoon of the 13th. Let me know, it's not definite but I WILL try to be there those times.

CJ

[bigdil511]

Originally Posted by ATLTRACON

Planning on being there the afternoon of the 10th until the afternoon of the 13th. Let me know, it's not definite but I WILL try to be there those times.

CJ

I'll be there on the 10th staying at citadel, let me know where you want to meet up, and if those dates you are coming are definate.

[diver191]

i def agree with LG. I'm at ATL tower and the avg check out time is around 8-9 months. One guy here got checked out in 6 months and there are a couple more right now finishing up training and it took them around 9 months. A lot of it seems to depend on the type of staffing at the facility as was mentioned earlier, and how good of a training program the facility actually has. It just depends on where you get placed at.

[SkierMatt]

Originally Posted by Sunburn

It is a pity I am going to miss you ATLTRACON, I won't be in OKC until 6NOV08. But if you get a bug under your armor and want to come up and see your daughter, I'll have a beer with you... just make sure it is a Wednesday at Walnut Gardens. I play I play...

Matt: Hopefully we can go all the way this year, and beat the Giants in the Bowl... just so I can rub it in my ex's face lol.

I will definitely see you there on Wednesday I will be staying walnut gardens too.