Big Incentive

[pilatus028]

Does anyone know who gets this big incentive...it reads

"Effective June 4, 2007, a recruitment incentive of $20,000 or 100% of your base pay, whichever is less, has been authorized for certain newly appointed employees in Air Traffic Control Specialist Occupational Series (2152)."

EDIT: nevermind...it's for previous controllers.

[ATLTRACON]

The entire thing is BS. Even though there is a HUGE need to retain people, once again, HR has gotten their dirty little hands involved and practically nixed the whole thing. Plus, how would you like it as, say a CTI student who was hired last month, had previous atc experience and got zippo and you, as that CTI student, was sitting next to that person with the EXACT same experience at work who received 20K, just because this month the FFA is in MORE dire straights than last month. It is more like a 3 or 4 tier pay system right now and it stinks.

Any self respecting Controller would tell the FFA to kiss their you-know-what anyway. Read the first one especially.
http://themainbang.typepad.com/blog/...ake-the-b.html

http://themainbang.typepad.com/blog/...ate-times.html

[surreal1221]

The selfish ones taking the jobs these days don't really care about their fellow controllers who have gotten the shaft ATL TRACON.

We're speaking to the unlistening masses.

[rctaber]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

The selfish ones taking the jobs these days don't really care about their fellow controllers who have gotten the shaft ATL TRACON.

We're speaking to the unlistening masses.

Wow, harsh words.

Were the people who took jobs as controllers after Reagan fired everyone in 1981 also selfish? I don't know anything about you but if you have been an ATC for a long time is it possible you got your job because the FAA was desperate like they are today? I know the screening and training was better back then but is that our fault?

Or, are you just making a generalization that young people these days are selfish? While I am not really young (29 years old), I do agree that my generation and those below me tend to think they are entitled to things. That said, there are some of us who, if hired, will fight with you for what all ATC's deserve.

[10SM CLR]

Originally Posted by rctaber

Wow, harsh words.

Were the people who took jobs as controllers after Reagan fired everyone in 1981 also selfish? I don't know anything about you but if you have been an ATC for a long time is it possible you got your job because the FAA was desperate like they are today? I know the screening and training was better back then but is that our fault?

Or, are you just making a generalization that young people these days are selfish? While I am not really young (29 years old), I do agree that my generation and those below me tend to think they are entitled to things. That said, there are some of us who, if hired, will fight with you for what all ATC's deserve.

I'm in your camp rctaber. I currently have about six figures in student loan debt and a really good (and good paying) IT job, but I am looking to do something different. Money is important, but doing a job that I think would be enjoyable (and with others who also enjoy their jobs) is more important I've realized. This is a good opportunity to change my career, and as a hard working American I think I'm entitled to take advantage of any position our government has made available.

[PilotChip]

Careful on assuming the "job" is enjoyable. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. Now with new regulations in place. It's too bad and sad...

[queeno]

Originally Posted by rctaber

Wow, harsh words.

Were the people who took jobs as controllers after Reagan fired everyone in 1981 also selfish? I don't know anything about you but if you have been an ATC for a long time is it possible you got your job because the FAA was desperate like they are today? I know the screening and training was better back then but is that our fault?

Or, are you just making a generalization that young people these days are selfish? While I am not really young (29 years old), I do agree that my generation and those below me tend to think they are entitled to things. That said, there are some of us who, if hired, will fight with you for what all ATC's deserve.

it will be yours and all the other OTS fault when the pay and work rules dont get better, your going to fight the FFA good luck they will just tell you, you took the job knowing what the pay and work rules are and if you dont like it quit.i didnt take the job in the 80s for less money you folks are.why do you think the FFA is paying per diem? is it because they want to do the right thing? NO ITS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE CTIs WERE NOT TAKING THE JOB AND CLASSES WERE GOING MOSTLY EMPTY, its the CTIs that got you OTSs the money not the kind careing FFA.by takeing the job now you are telling the FFA you are happy with the second class pay and work rules, and thats all you will get from them.

[rctaber]

Originally Posted by queeno

it will be yours and all the other OTS fault when the pay and work rules dont get better, your going to fight the FFA good luck they will just tell you, you took the job knowing what the pay and work rules are and if you dont like it quit.i didnt take the job in the 80s for less money you folks are.why do you think the FFA is paying per diem? is it because they want to do the right thing? NO ITS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE CTIs WERE NOT TAKING THE JOB AND CLASSES WERE GOING MOSTLY EMPTY, its the CTIs that got you OTSs the money not the kind careing FFA.by takeing the job now you are telling the FFA you are happy with the second class pay and work rules, and thats all you will get from them.

So with that line of reasoning, everyone hired as an ATC after 1981 is no different from us. They took less money and worse conditions than the former ATCs were demanding, right? Aren't the new hires and applicants doing the same thing?

So really, it is all ATCs hired after 1981's fault that things are the way they are because if they had not taken those jobs like you are asking us not to, then the FAA would have been forced to give in. I am not blaming anyone, it is what it is. I am just trying to understand your arguement.

[ATC RET 2003]

Originally Posted by queeno

why do you think the FFA is paying per diem? is it because they want to do the right thing? NO ITS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE CTIs WERE NOT TAKING THE JOB AND CLASSES WERE GOING MOSTLY EMPTY, its the CTIs that got you OTSs the money not the kind careing FFA.

It also creates the very useful (for the FFA) by-product of pitting the workforce against itself... people that got nothing working side-by-side with those who got per diem. This on top of the multi-level salaries among a group of people doing exactly the same job.

Originally Posted by rctaber

That said, there are some of us who, if hired, will fight with you for what all ATC's deserve.

It's hard to rally the troops when they're fighting amongst themselves. The FFA is not always stupid.

[queeno]

Originally Posted by rctaber

So with that line of reasoning, everyone hired as an ATC after 1981 is no different from us. They took less money and worse conditions than the former ATCs were demanding, right? Aren't the new hires and applicants doing the same thing?

So really, it is all ATCs hired after 1981's fault that things are the way they are because if they had not taken those jobs like you are asking us not to, then the FAA would have been forced to give in. I am not blaming anyone, it is what it is. I am just trying to understand your arguement.

el wrongo nubee the controllers hired after 1981 were makeing MORE MONEY than the PATCO controllers and the work rules were BETTER not WORSE than what PATCO had to put up with, you on the other hand are willing to work for second class pay and work rules and your pay will never never never get close to my level ever. in fact ill be making more in retirement than you will ever make even if you go to an atc 12, thats if you are still working for the fed and they havent given the system to Lock Mart, just ask the FSS folks how they were treated.

[rctaber]

Originally Posted by queeno

el wrongo nubee the controllers hired after 1981 were makeing MORE MONEY than the PATCO controllers and the work rules were BETTER not WORSE than what PATCO had to put up with, you on the other hand are willing to work for second class pay and work rules and your pay will never never never get close to my level ever. in fact ill be making more in retirement than you will ever make even if you go to an atc 12, thats if you are still working for the fed and they havent given the system to Lock Mart, just ask the FSS folks how they were treated.

So Reagan fired all the ATCs so he could give you better conditions and higher pay than they were asking for? That doesn't make sense to me.

[queeno]

Originally Posted by rctaber

So Reagan fired all the ATCs so he could give you better conditions and higher pay than they were asking for? That doesn't make sense to me.

el rongo again nubee, Reagan fired PATCO for going on STRIKE.and what dose sense have to do with anything has to do in what the goverment dose????????????but you keep pitching nubee you just may get one right.

[SoonerATC]

Queeno - spell check your posts. And try throwing some punctuation in there somewhere. Seriously - how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you type like a 5 year old?

(Now I'll sit back and wait while you proceed to explain how my nit-picking your post is the FAA's fault)

[queeno]

Originally Posted by SoonerATC

Queeno - spell check your posts. And try throwing some punctuation in there somewhere. Seriously - how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you type like a 5 year old?

(Now I'll sit back and wait while you proceed to explain how my nit-picking your post is the FAA's fault)

WOW is that all you can come up with nubee????????????????????????????

[GeorgeM]

Originally Posted by queeno

el rongo again nubee, Reagan fired PATCO for going on STRIKE.and what dose sense have to do with anything has to do in what the goverment dose????????????but you keep pitching nubee you just may get one right.

Shows how stupid PATCO was. I hope NATCA leadership has more sense.

[rctaber]

Originally Posted by queeno

el rongo again nubee, Reagan fired PATCO for going on STRIKE.and what dose sense have to do with anything has to do in what the goverment dose????????????but you keep pitching nubee you just may get one right.

Thanks for pointing me straight. I look forward to the 32 hour work week that over 10,000 people lost thier jobs fighting for.

[borommakot]

Hey, can we all grow up and act like professionals here? Please?

We all want the working conditions for controllers to improve. Weather or not the FAA hires a few hundred OTS people isn't going to make a bit of difference in the long run. The only place to win these negotiations is with congress, and getting the laws changed so the union has a fighting chance in arbitration.

So please, a little common respect here. No matter if you are a 25 year veteran, a CTI with thousands of dollars invested, or an OTS just starting in Oklahoma, we're all in this together.

Peace.

[queeno]

Originally Posted by rctaber

Thanks for pointing me straight. I look forward to the 32 hour work week that over 10,000 people lost thier jobs fighting for.

hay nubee you got to get hired and make it through training first.

[rctaber]

Originally Posted by queeno

hay nubee you got to get hired and make it through training first.

I hear ya. Just giving you a hard time but do you see my point at all?

[queeno]

Originally Posted by borommakot

Hey, can we all grow up and act like professionals here? Please?

We all want the working conditions for controllers to improve. Weather or not the FAA hires a few hundred OTS people isn't going to make a bit of difference in the long run. The only place to win these negotiations is with congress, and getting the laws changed so the union has a fighting chance in arbitration.

So please, a little common respect here. No matter if you are a 25 year veteran, a CTI with thousands of dollars invested, or an OTS just starting in Oklahoma, we're all in this together.

Peace.

where do you get this WE stuff from, i dont see you working next to me ,if congress wanted to do somthing they had a chance in may of 2006,and they did NOTHING but let the fed push through the IWR.if the pipe line of people taking the job dried up the FFA would have to act, just like giveing back the per deim when half of the CTIs would not take the jobs.

and dont talk to me about being a professional until youve sat in my seat . you dont have to like the message but it is what it is and you will all find out in good time.

[brianjgault]

http://www.faafollies.com/?p=105

In today’s dollars under the GS scale, controllers at OKC would be earning GS-7 base pay $31740, plus the addition of general locality pay of 12.64% and 5% ATRA, for a total salary of $37339. Upon certifying at an ATC-11 facility they would be earning GS-14 pay with steady step increases graduating in 1, 2, or 3 year increments within a range of $93,071 to $120,990 in today’s dollars. These figures are calculated using today’s GS pay scales which determined our pay after the 1981 strike and are still in use throughout the government.

As a new academy graduate, the pay is $31,700 plus locality. The low end seems to be pretty close to me...it's the upper end that's not even close anymore.

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by rctaber

So with that line of reasoning, everyone hired as an ATC after 1981 is no different from us. They took less money and worse conditions actually the conditions were slight better. I can't find the name of it anymore, but there was a great book out by F. Lee Bailey (
yes that guy) who helped found PATCO. And in this book the treatment that the PATCO guys endured was horrendous. Urinating in coffee cans, on position, because breaks would come after 3 to 4 hours on position. Eating lunch on position (been there done that) etc.than the former ATCs were demanding, right? Aren't the new hires and applicants doing the same thing?

So really, it is all ATCs hired after 1981's fault that things are the way they are because if they had not taken those jobs like you are asking us not to, then the FAA would have been forced to give in. I am not blaming anyone, it is what it is. I am just trying to understand your arguement.

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by SoonerATC

Queeno - spell check your posts. And try throwing some punctuation in there somewhere. Seriously - how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you type like a 5 year old?

I'm throwing the plagiarism BS flag here. These are my lines and cannot be used without the express written consent of me or the NHL.

[10SM CLR]

Originally Posted by queeno

where do you get this WE stuff from, i dont see you working next to me ,if congress wanted to do somthing they had a chance in may of 2006,and they did NOTHING but let the fed push through the IWR.if the pipe line of people taking the job dried up the FFA would have to act, just like giveing back the per deim when half of the CTIs would not take the jobs.

and dont talk to me about being a professional until youve sat in my seat . you dont have to like the message but it is what it is and you will all find out in good time.

Queeno,

Just curious what facility you work at? I haven't made my geographic preferences yet because I'm still trying to determine what facilities NOT to pick. Kind Regards.

[NFW JR]

You know, Im gonna have to step in here. To the vets of the FAA, I understand the problem and theses guys posting seem like they wanna help. You talk about CTI's and OTS', well im not either. The chair comment, you cant say that to me. Ive sat in that chair and ive done the job. Dont pick on these guys because they are going through THIER OWN PERSONAL HELL to get, not your job, but a job in that chair. Its not thier fault that NATCA and the FAA couldnt get things straight together, so stop taking it out on them. They arent the supervisors that are doing you wrong, HELL, they arent even FAA yet. You tell me who is the sell out>? the guy who dosent take the job and lets his FAMILY starve or the guy who takes the job for less money and fills that "empty seat?" Some of us dont have that "choice" so when you say its the peoples fault who are taking that job, remember, they arent the ones really doing the injustice.