NATCA ?

[Fox Xray]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

You kids just don't get it do you?

I love how NATCA is being blamed for the current work conditions.

Point the finger(s) in the direction of your guys' future employer (if you get your way). Why anyone would start taking up a defense of the FAA's hiring, work rules, and occupational practices are beyond me.

What exactly is so damn bad about having a collective bargaining association, that is defending YOU, and protecting YOUR career from an employer who has ZERO regard for your health, or your mental state?

WAKE THE HELL UP.

NATCA is NOT the devil in this situation, they haven't been EVER. The FAA, and the horrible leadership that exists at the top are the ones you need to start questioning. Just because you want to work as a controller, doesn't mean you have to be ignorant to the obvious facts that the FAA does not care about you.

Most get it Surreal ... my area has been getting new people and the WCG guys up in the training department have sought me out to stop in on them as there first questions had to do with how do I join NATCA ...

The all hands meetings have also had a nice showing of new faces as well.

[dcatcdude]

well clearly i guess im wrong according to you guys. mabye one day you will prove me wrong, but i will standby what I say and that it should be a team effort, not FAA vs NATCA. the seperation that exists today will never do anygood for anyone.

that is all I will say on this subject, but I really hope one day I am right and everyone is a team and everyone makes many many strides foward to the same goal.

[Fox Xray]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

well clearly i guess im wrong according to you guys. mabye one day you will prove me wrong, but i will standby what I say and that it should be a team effort, not FAA vs NATCA. the seperation that exists today will never do anygood for anyone.

that is all I will say on this subject, but I really hope one day I am right and everyone is a team and everyone makes many many strides foward to the same goal.

I don't want to come across as mean but you have no facts or first hand experience to back up your claims and hence your argument is flawed. At first your post seemed like troll bait but the more I reflect on your posts you just seem young and not experienced in the world of labor and government employment... while that in itself is not a bad thing not listening to what those with experience tell you is.

When you report to duty your first day with preconceived opinions about the union and the job you are going to have a hard time. I can respect someone who joins the union and 12-16 months later leaves and says it's not for them and states the reasons why. Someone with no facts or experience but already have their mind made up just comes across as plain ignorant and closed minded.

Joining NATCA is more then just being part of a labor group ... you are going to be brought into a group of very experienced people that will be putting their livelihood's on the line to train you, they will share with you the wisdom they have amassed over their long careers both in working traffic and surviving the pit falls of the job of a controller.

Remember one fact... NATCA did NOT draw the line in the sand... the Bush / Blakey FAA did.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

Most get it Surreal ... my area has been getting new people and the WCG guys up in the training department have sought me out to stop in on them as there first questions had to do with how do I join NATCA ...

The all hands meetings have also had a nice showing of new faces as well.

That is refreshing to know. Are any NATCA reps allowed to inform the trainees out in OKC?

Essentially, does the FAA allocate any time for the association to do any sort of introduction / indoctrination of the workforce out in OKC?

I recall reading a clause in the previous contract that said the FAA would provide a period of time allocated for the association to speak to new hires, etc.

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

When you report to duty your first day with preconceived opinions about the union and the job you are going to have a hard time.

Let's also remind this young one, or whoever he is, that along with the fact that he very well may not be successful in getting checked out because of his attitude toward the union - no one will want to help save his job should he (heaven forbid) cause damage.

Turning your back on the association before you're even in the door. Don't ask, or expect anything back.

He must really think that management will take to him well if he continues to say he wants to move into management.

Even the ones who do move into management have been checked out SOMEWHERE, for more than 6 months as well.

This guy knows all though.

[ATC RET 2003]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

well clearly i guess im wrong according to you guys.

Don't sell yourself short so quickly... it's possible that you are merely much the same as you (in your second ever post) described the rest of us:

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

alot of you are really ignorant and dont understand all the circumstances

[Fox Xray]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

That is refreshing to know. Are any NATCA reps allowed to inform the trainees out in OKC?

Essentially, does the FAA allocate any time for the association to do any sort of introduction / indoctrination of the workforce out in OKC?

I recall reading a clause in the previous contract that said the FAA would provide a period of time allocated for the association to speak to new hires, etc.

Yes... both the NATCA President and VP along with regional VP's go out to OKC to talk to the new hires there. Through the grape vine the info spreads and they do a nice setup with free food and drinks for the OKC people... no business casual attire allowed It's held close to the academy so the evening students can leave on their meal break and attend for the food. The FAA was so pissed that when they got wind of the day they started offering free pizza for dinner that night hoping to keep the students away.



Let's also remind this young one, or whoever he is, that along with the fact that he very well may not be successful in getting checked out because of his attitude toward the union - no one will want to help save his job should he (heaven forbid) cause damage.

That is exactly where the lack of experience of his comments surface. He does not understand that management would cut him loose in a second and send him packing back to the street. It's his rep (NATCA) who works the back channels via anything from old management connections that owe favors to other reps to find a place for him to land on his feet. Not a member ? I'm not doing squat... face the review board solo...

Turning your back on the association before you're even in the door. Don't ask, or expect anything back.

He must really think that management will take to him well if he continues to say he wants to move into management.

Even the ones who do move into management have been checked out SOMEWHERE, for more than 6 months as well.

This guy knows all though.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

I can guarentee you that they did not want to end up cutting costs, but they had to to avoid you guys working harder than you already due.

that makes NO sense. ATC controllers have to work harder because they're understaffed and they need more bodies....and how can you possibly "guarantee" what you're saying? you have some sort of inner scoop no one else has?

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by wve_iii

Last time I checked it was the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) not the Future Farmers of America (FFA) but maybe that didnt come up on your spell checker?

It was intentional you NOOB...figure it out.

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

well clearly i guess im wrong according to you guys. mabye one day you will prove me wrong, but i will standby what I say and that it should be a team effort, not FAA vs NATCA. the seperation that exists today will never do anygood for anyone.

that is all I will say on this subject, but I really hope one day I am right and everyone is a team and everyone makes many many strides foward to the same goal.

And why shouldn't you stand by what you said with all of the experience you have in the Agency. Typical know-it-all punk who cannot be told anything. Your 0 days experience certainly outweighs my 22+ years experience.

[queeno]

WOW, all i can say is send this kid to chicago tracon we are looking for some good managers and he seems to have all the answers with out ever controlling airplane one.

[JT ATC]

I've done extensive reading online and I've talked to numerous current controllers and I'm definetly joining NATCA when I get hired.

The fact that the FAA is doing nothing more than just imposing their will on the controllers really bothers me. Not to mention the fact they are quick to fire someone for making a little mistake that they spent so much time and money to train, but then are pushing controllers through that shouldn't be controllers.

Some of those imposed work rules are nothing more than a show of force. Who cares what controllers dress like? Virtually no one ever sees the controllers.

Mandatory overtime, working controllers like dogs, 8 hours in between shifts. That's crazy. They should work those schedules and see how fast they get burnt out. And they don't have the lives of hundreds of people in their hands.

One thing I have learned is that just about every controller LOVES their jobs. The pay cut is not the biggest problem they have. It's the other things. The way they are treated, the way their bosses aren't even controllers. If you have never been a controller, then you will never know what all this job really entails.

I haven't even started working for the FAA yet, but I'm not afraid of starting to because of the hope that things will improve, NATCA's voice will finally be heard by the FAA, Congress, and the general public one day. Until then, I'll suck it up and pay my dues.

[tilli5285]

<P>

I've done extensive reading online and I've talked to numerous current controllers and I'm definetly joining NATCA when I get hired. <BR><BR>The fact that the FAA is doing nothing more than just imposing their will on the controllers really bothers me. Not to mention the fact they are quick to fire someone for making a little mistake that they spent so much time and money to train, but then are pushing controllers through that shouldn't be controllers. <BR><BR>Some of those imposed work rules are nothing more than a show of force. Who cares what controllers dress like? Virtually no one ever sees the controllers. <BR><BR>Mandatory overtime, working controllers like dogs, 8 hours in between shifts. That's crazy. They should work those schedules and see how fast they get burnt out. And they don't have the lives of hundreds of people in their hands. <BR><BR>One thing I have learned is that just about every controller LOVES their jobs. The pay cut is not the biggest problem they have. It's the other things. The way they are treated, the way their bosses aren't even controllers. If you have never been a controller, then you will never know what all this job really entails. <BR><BR>I haven't even started working for the FAA yet, but I'm not afraid of starting to because of the hope that things will improve, NATCA's voice will finally be heard by the FAA, Congress, and the general public one day. Until then, I'll suck it up and pay my dues.

</P>


Amen Brother!! I agree completely.

[surreal1221]

Best of luck to your JT, and to those who share that view.

They need more just like you, and less of the weak minded robots that they are getting.

[Beehive]

Originally Posted by queeno

WOW, all i can say is send this kid to chicago tracon we are looking for some good managers and he seems to have all the answers with out ever controlling airplane one.

Off subject- I've heard this is how a typical manager acts.

I come here for the information and stay for the entertainment!

[RABIRZA69]

I wonder if an OJTI will go out of their way to get you checked out if you're not a union member........hmmmm

[JT ATC]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Best of luck to your JT, and to those who share that view.

They need more just like you, and less of the weak minded robots that they are getting.

Well it helps growing up with a father who is ATC. We talk alot about what's going on plus my guard unit has several controllers employed with the FAA at various locations. So I hear alot of what's going on behind the scenes.

BTW, I like the quote in ur sig...lol

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by RABIRZA69

I wonder if an OJTI will go out of their way to get you checked out if your not a union member........hmmmm

You can't expect anything. Even as a union member.

But. . .the odds are in one's favor if you are also a member, and are having some trouble, that a much wiser union member may be willing to spend some more time with you, give you the benefit of the doubt, and help you get to the quality of controller they want along with what the agency wants.

But, you can pretty much promise you won't get any additional help if you (within a few short days of arriving on station) give the union the finger.

[Towerboss]

The only reason I'm not a NATCA member is because I can't afford it right now. I plan too as soon as I check out though. I'm just hurting so bad financially right now.

P.S. Can I recommend to some of the NATCA folks, to start an adoption or sponsor program for us new FAA folks. Like you pay our dues for us for a year or help us pay them? Just suggestions for a new controller who wants to be a NATCA member but can't pay for it now.

[kcarpentier]

Originally Posted by Towerboss

The only reason I'm not a NATCA member is because I can't afford it right now. I plan too as soon as I check out though. I'm just hurting so bad financially right now.

P.S. Can I recommend to some of the NATCA folks, to start an adoption or sponsor program for us new FAA folks. Like you pay our dues for us for a year or help us pay them? Just suggestions for a new controller who wants to be a NATCA member but can't pay for it now.

How much does it cost? I read on The Main Bang where John Carr was calling for members to donate to help out new hires to join NATCA, I don't know what ever became of that though!

[Towerboss]

Originally Posted by kcarpentier

How much does it cost? I read on The Main Bang where John Carr was calling for members to donate to help out new hires to join NATCA, I don't know what ever became of that though!

It's a % of your base pay. So it depends on your facility level and what stage of training you are in.

TB

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by Towerboss

The only reason I'm not a NATCA member is because I can't afford it right now. I plan too as soon as I check out though. I'm just hurting so bad financially right now.

P.S. Can I recommend to some of the NATCA folks, to start an adoption or sponsor program for us new FAA folks. Like you pay our dues for us for a year or help us pay them? Just suggestions for a new controller who wants to be a NATCA member but can't pay for it now.

We talked this over at A80 and here was the consensus. When we came into the Agency no one paid our dues, and yes, we were making less than you new guys are. It's called "paying your dues"...get the pun? We also felt that, and yes this will be hard to believe, that after that time that we pay your dues is up, some noob is going to say I don't wanna pay dues, I can get what the Union offers for free. Or I still can't afford it so can you pay them longer, etc.

Last comment on this...Can you afford NOT to join the Union. We are the only ones looking out for you.

[queeno]

Originally Posted by Towerboss

The only reason I'm not a NATCA member is because I can't afford it right now. I plan too as soon as I check out though. I'm just hurting so bad financially right now.

P.S. Can I recommend to some of the NATCA folks, to start an adoption or sponsor program for us new FAA folks. Like you pay our dues for us for a year or help us pay them? Just suggestions for a new controller who wants to be a NATCA member but can't pay for it now.

i am sorry did the FAA put a gun to your head and force you to be a controller for less money??????????????if they did than id be glad to pick up your dues.as far as i see it you took the job for the pay and work rules and you have no right to complain about not haveing the money to join the union, remember its better than Taco Bell right??????

[Towerboss]

Queeno,
No one said I was complaining about not having the money to join the Union. I was just stating I can't afford to be a member right now due to the pay. You are correct I took the job at the low pay under the bad work rules. I quit the 2nd highest paying federal contract tower job for it. I love the job and NATCA will have my support financially as soon as I finish checking out.

ATLTRACON (CJ),
The decision yall came to at A90 makes since to me, I see where that would/could be a problem. Reference your question, "Can you afford NOT to join the Union?" my answer right now is yes. I'm already working two jobs to keep my wife and two kids from going hungry. I'm not complaining mind you. I'm just telling you I REALLY don't have the cash. Also when you guys started you said you made less than we are now, thats correct but it's relative. Your pay vs. cost of living at the time, is equal to or just shy of what we are getting now vs. cost of living.

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by Towerboss

Queeno,
No one said I was complaining about not having the money to join the Union. I was just stating I can't afford to be a member right now due to the pay. You are correct I took the job at the low pay under the bad work rules. I quit the 2nd highest paying federal contract tower job for it. I love the job and NATCA will have my support financially as soon as I finish checking out.

ATLTRACON (CJ),
The decision yall came to at A90 (A80) A90 is Boston TRACON, which I used to work at but not anymore. makes since to me, I see where that would/could be a problem. Reference your question, "Can you afford NOT to join the Union?" This was not a financial question. This was a question as to who is going to protect you if, during training, something happens and they want to can you. my answer right now is yes. I'm already working two jobs to keep my wife and two kids from going hungry. I'm not complaining mind you. I'm just telling you I REALLY don't have the cash. Also when you guys started you said you made less than we are now, thats correct but it's relative. Your pay vs. cost of living at the time, is equal to or just shy of what we are getting now vs. cost of living.

[Towerboss]

ATLTRACON,
Understood... I guess I'm kinda playing Russian Roulette w/ my FAA Career but I have to at this point. And sorry for the slip of the finger I know A80 not 90.