What's the rule on landing clearance?

[w5cdt]

I'm a newbie with 80 hours flying mainly out of Class C (KAUS). One thing that puzzles me is when I'm asked to switch to tower frequency and check in with tower they often clear me to land when I'm 5 miles out, abeam of the runway (i.e. nowhere near the approach end), and I'm putting along in my Aerobat at 90 kias. Now I know from experience
sometimes another "big guy" is lurking out there on a 10 mile final on the ILS and that he's going to beat me to the numbers. When I get this sort of "distant" landing clearance I'm always ready for tower to cancel the landing clearance and extend me downwind (or some other delaying method).

So my question is this:

Is the ATC rule regarding landing clearance given to the "closest" airplane to the landing runway? even if a 757 is way out there on final and likely to arrive and short final before me?

It's not a big deal ...I'm just puzzled as to why ATC clears me to land when I've got another 3-5 minutes of flying before I'm turning final.

[AA34]

While I do not have an answer, because I am also an 80 hour ppl, I also fly out of KAUS in a 172 and have this happen to me all the time.

[w5cdt]

Originally Posted by AA34

While I do not have an answer, because I am also an 80 hour ppl, I also fly out of KAUS in a 172 and have this happen to me all the time.

Next time we take a tower tour with the UT Flying Club I'll ask the locals if we don't get an answer here. At least you can do better than 90 kias!

[ScottG]

Was wondering the same out of KBOI a couple days ago. I think they are pretty good at estimating the order of arrival. I know some of the busier places even have software predict the arrival times. Either way, doesn't seem a problem to amend a clearance if they are wrong as I've seen it happen before (XYZ you are now number 2 on 10L).......... I'm sure ATC has a better answer.

[Towerboss]

AA34 and w5cdt well you shouldn't be flying at AUS anyway come on down to my airport. And the reason they clear you to land is because in ATC we use a part of our book that states. 3-10-6 Landing clearance to succeeding aircraft in a landing sequence need not be withheld if you observe the positions of the aircraft and determine that prescribed runway separation will exist when the aircraft cross the landing threshold.


BTW what are ya'lls aircraft callsigns?

[atcsleepy]

There is no pre-defined point in space you are going to get a landing clearance. You will get a landing clearance sometime before you cross the runway threshold. For the most part you will get a landing clearance on initial contact and any other pertinent information/instructions.

[w5cdt]

Originally Posted by Towerboss

AA34 and w5cdt well you shouldn't be flying at AUS anyway come on down to my airport. And the reason they clear you to land is because in ATC we use a part of our book that states. 3-10-6 Landing clearance to succeeding aircraft in a landing sequence need not be withheld if you observe the positions of the aircraft and determine that prescribed runway separation will exist when the aircraft cross the landing threshold.


BTW what are ya'lls aircraft callsigns?

I fly the only Aerobat 152 at KAUS. (no wheelpants so it maxes out at 90 kias). The Aerobat is one of the UT Flying Club fleet and it flys a lot. Also known as N4951A. Most of the senior ATC folks know the callsign well. Also known on YouTube for a famous 52 turn spin.

[athomeinthesky]

Originally Posted by w5cdt

Also known on YouTube for a famous 52 turn spin.

I just watched that on youtube, thats crazy

[v1valarob]

Im sure if someone did manage to beat you in and it was easier for them to land first they would do something to the effect of "NXXX Cleared to land runway X #1" Then get back to you and says"NXXXX Cleared to land runway X #2 follow traffic, let me know when you have them in site"

At least thats what they do at my controlled airport when things get changed.

-Rob

[nosehair]

Originally Posted by w5cdt

Is the ATC rule regarding landing clearance given to the "closest" airplane to the landing runway?

Closest in time, not in distance.

[AA34]

T-Boss, what airport do you work at?

When I am back in town from college im in a 172 with VK as the tail. Other than that I am all the way up here in Lubbock.

[CaptainCrickettMan]

When I flew out of CAE in a 172, I sometimes got handed off to the tower a minute after contacting approach; still ten miles out. I'd contact the tower and then they'd clear me to land; at least 9 miles out at that point. If it's not busy, they'll clear you to land anywhere they like.

[citabriapilot]

It's also common practice to be cleared to land 25 miles out with 3 or 4 airplanes in front of you, more behind you, in the IFR system.

The controllers know what they are doing. Most towers have radar as well and they are well aware of where you are, how fast you are going, and if you will make it in before "the other guy".

[ctab5060X]

Originally Posted by nosehair

Closest in time, not in distance.

Not always...

Last night, I was about 10 miles out with a Navajo also about 7 out...my groundspeed was ~170, his was ~70. Time to the airport, me - 3.5 minutes, him - 6 minutes. I was turned out to follow the Navajo. Seems to me a lot of the time, it also depends on where you are in relation to other traffic and the airport. Take last night for an example...Navajo on 7 mile final to 19, I am on track for a left base to 21 or 19. Even though I could have beat him to the airport and landed first, I would have been doing so with him on less than a 3 mile final when I landed and if I had slowed the least little bit (very possible), missed a turnoff, any little thing, it could have possibly jeopardized separation.

[Towerboss]

KSAT

[Merlin]

I have a similar question from the other end... sometimes, when we check in with tower, we are told simply to "continue" apparently because they want to allow a departure or two before we land. Fine. However, the majority of airports that I operate into don't do this and I routinely get cleared to land on the initial check-in.

For example, Raliegh-Durham will never clear us to land if there is a prior departure. However, San Diego does this routinely.

Is there a rule about this or is it just facility policy?

Jeremy

[Omdahl]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I have a similar question from the other end... sometimes, when we check in with tower, we are told simply to "continue" apparently because they want to allow a departure or two before we land. Fine. However, the majority of airports that I operate into don't do this and I routinely get cleared to land on the initial check-in.

For example, Raliegh-Durham will never clear us to land if there is a prior departure. However, San Diego does this routinely.

Is there a rule about this or is it just facility policy?

Jeremy

It may have to do with position and hold or various other reason like having a vehicle on the runway. For me, I will clear an aircraft to land even if I will have a departure before they arrive. If I have a vehicle on the runway I never issue a landing clearance and will just say "continue" and usually give the reason "vehicle on the runway". We don't have position and hold were I'm at, but I think if you have one in position and hold or plan on it then you can't clear an aircraft to land so "continue" would be appropriate then.

[knaschru]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I have a similar question from the other end... sometimes, when we check in with tower, we are told simply to "continue" apparently because they want to allow a departure or two before we land. Fine. However, the majority of airports that I operate into don't do this and I routinely get cleared to land on the initial check-in.

For example, Raliegh-Durham will never clear us to land if there is a prior departure. However, San Diego does this routinely.

Is there a rule about this or is it just facility policy?

Jeremy

i dont think there is any rule regarding that. but if an aircraft departed the same runway where you were gonna land while you were on like.. 10 miles final, the controller has to make sure there rwy seperation before he'll clear you to land, so in the meantime he will ask you to continue approach. there might be other situations too like omdahl said, a vehicle on the rwy or if an aircraft ahead of you just landed, hadnt vacated the rwy yet. as a general practise, i would clear an aircraft to land if the rwy is vacant.