Runway Incursion - TEB

[TopperHarley]

Both. I can't help it that I have a pet peeve of people sounding extra "ignant" by not spelling correctly. Do your homework before class.

[hacknow]

Yeah. Four years ago. What's so hard to believe? The point is, like so many other annoyances, its gradual, gradual, gradual, then SUDDEN.

If someone built a toxic waste dump next to your house, would you be satisfied with the property tax ratable? I don't think so.

You're making sense with your last option. Let the residents decide if they think TEB makes enough of a tax contribution or otherwise. Let them decide how much they will accept to permit this menace to continue. If the airport were to go, we'd replace it with a great ratable. That's prime real estate. We'd be fine.

Again- I don't see the airport closing. That's just a fantasy. What I do see is a serious curtailment in usage (especially for frivolous travel) and the imposition of a hefty fee for usage that benefits residents.

TopperHarley: the flying nun:



NEXT.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by hacknow

You misunderstood. I know no one is going to take my house. What I'm saying is a "taking" (in the legal sense) has already occurred in that many residents have lost their right to the "quiet enjoyment" of their property. The government (FAA, PANY) should compensate for this loss via the surcharge explained above.

And yes, some say I'm a little crazy. But are you fly boys so deluded that you don't recognize the enormous toll your industry takes on the non-flying public? I don't mind EWR, JFK because I get a direct benefit from them. I use them. But airports like TEB DO NOT SERVE THE INTERESTS of the non-flying public, especially when you take into account the danger, pollution, noise, etc. It's a rich person's airport for athletes and movie stars.

Seriously, you need an education on aviation if you're looking at getting into it. How old are you? Are you just spouting what your parents tell you? For the record, most of my flying in and out of TEB has been flying your checks in and out of NY/NJ, since there's no room at JFK, EWR, or LGA for check haulers to set up business (nor would it be economical). TEB is there to keep all the GA airplanes from taking up space at the big airports, and this is what it's used for.

I love how you feel EWR and JFK are okay, since you don't live there. If you did, you'd feel the same about those airports. Guess what...all those airports have been there much longer than most of those houses. Now, if you wanted to say that Midway in Chicago was a dangerous airport, you wouldn't get many arguments from us, but TEB is just another airport in a community that the community has encroached on.

Good luck on getting them to pay you, since most politicians, etc., fly in and out of TEB also. It's everybody that wants to get to or from NY/NJ that doesn't fly commercially, or want to put up with being #30 for takeoff out of those cesspools.

[hacknow]

You need to separate GA airports from major airports. Large passenger jets are the buses of the sky. Arguably, they serve the common good. You may not like to ride a bus, but you content yourself that its far more economical and less taxing on the environment/community than several dozen cars. Granted, those living near the bus station don't like the noise, but they can hop on a bus any time. Same for EWR, JFK. Again, its a matter of degree.

You GA pilots are the equivalent of the single occupant SUVs that clutter the roads and highways and waste gas. You (and the snobs you chauffer) apparently don't care about conservation, pollution and the blatant intrusion against the populations over which you fly.

As far as taking up space at the major airports: Why not just use large passenger jets and fly first class? Do two passengers really need a lear jet?

"I'm in the hi-fidelity first class traveling set, And I think I need a Lear Jet." Pink Floyd, Money

You'd be surprised about politicians. I know a few who have TEB targeted.

Guess I shouldn't have expected much sympathy from "Stone Cold".

[Stone Cold]

Hack,

Well, not sure what brought out all the angst you show towards GA, but please re-read my post and discuss the points I've brought up. Feeling that people with money shouldn't have the right to charter an airplane is an socialist attitude on your part. If you have to, everybody else should, right?

How about my experience flying your checks in the middle of the night so you can have your checks deposited? Was that annoying? Should check haulers not use GA airports? That'll cut into your interest your bank pays you.

I know, your bank is all electronic, etc., right? Those checks still go to the FED, and there will be the need for them for the forseeable future.

How about all the medical flights that go there to help save lives? The reasons are too numerous for a GA airport to stay, and only close-minded people want to shut them down. It contributes much more than just those "elitist rich people" that you talk about.

Nope, no sympathy from Stone Cold. Guess where I got that nickname...TEB

How about you post in the members announcements section who you are and your purpose on here, rather than just posting your animosity of a GA airport in an indirectly related thread.

[hacknow]

Labeling me a socialist or NIMBY is easy (and not very creative). For the record, I'm as true blue as any of you. I don't care if Martha Stewart likes to ski at Telluride on Thursdays. God bless her. But when I can't hear my daughter's first words because Martha’s jet takes off over my house, there's a problem.

Flying checks? Yes- electronic. Trust me, we'd find a way to get by. After all, this is the "information age."

Medical flights are fine. If I need an organ, I could benefit from TEB. Naturally, you make allowances for the general good. That's easy.

Again, I don't think TEB should close entirely. It should just be closed for frivolous usage- or- taxed heavily for frivolous usage.

Cigarettes: Taxed heavily. Money used to promote health. You can do the same for TEB.

I get the feeling I'm not welcome here. So I'll go (unless someone pisses me off). Just know, as you scream over Bergen County at 2:00am, you just woke a sick baby, spewed jet exhaust over someone's tomatoes, wasted tons of energy, and unnecessarily endangered the lives of thousands- just so your rich snob passenger can have lobster in Nantucket.

Happy flying!

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by hacknow

I get the feeling I'm not welcome here. So I'll go (unless someone pisses me off). Just know, as you scream over Bergen County at 2:00am, you just woke a sick baby, spewed jet exhaust over someone's tomatoes, wasted tons of energy, and unnecessarily endangered the lives of thousands- just so your rich snob passenger can have lobster in Nantucket.

Happy flying!

<Cut...over the top for me> Lobster in ACK is fabulous, BTW!! And, apparently it's too late for somebody pissing you off. You had to have it pointed out to you about the traffic, so good luck in life. A pro pilot forum will not get you any sympathies on eliminating or heavily taxing what you consider "frivolous usage" for an AIRPORT that your family moved next to.

[Av8trix]

I think it's pretty safe to say that this guy is pretty clearly a troll. And coming to an aviation/pilot board with the agenda he's got pretty much supports that.

He's not here to debate- he's coming from another board with about a hunnerd and a half posts hysterically disparaging the TEB airport.

:shrug:
-A-

[hacknow]

Ok, since Av8trix and Stone Cold want me to stick around, I'll go a few more rounds.

"Agenda" is just a label too. Did the founding fathers have an "independence agenda"? Maybe so. What's wrong with an agenda? Civil Rights, anti-smoking, Amnesty International -- all "agendas".

JetCareers has an agenda: to promote unabated, carte blanche, in-your-face, air travel. What's your point?

I think you’re all just a little miffed about the possibility that your once “romantic” pastime is turning into a pretentious, obnoxious and un-welcomed annoyance for millions of people.

[akaFlyboy 4]

Ironic how this thread has experienced several incursion, near misses and obnoxiously been Hi-Jacked.

When I first starting reading it, it was a quite peaceful relatively small thread then about 4 post later someone pointed out to me how loud it had gotten. So now I can piss and moan or I can move onto a new thread.

Mr Moderator please, please escort this gentalmen to a more appropriate thread, I am concerned for the passengers on this thread that are trying to maintain a positive exchange of information and reap the benefits of all the different kinds of aviation in our world.

[hacknow]

I'll show myself out, thank you. I'll be here if anyone needs me: General Aviation: An Obnoxious Pastime.

[BuickCFI]

JetCareers has an agenda: to promote unabated, carte blanche, in-your-face, air travel. What's your point?

if you take a look around you will see a lot of the pilots here are either
a. part 121 pilots (that is airline). the same pilots who fly those buses you said that the snobs need to fly
b. part 135 pilots (charter, cargo, etc)
c. training to become either a or b

so really this isn't a GA forum and it isn't a place to come and complain because your family moved next to an airport

[averyrm]

Nah, I bet if he complains more on the internet he'll get tons of money for living by the airport! Don't you guys see the astounding logic?

[falconvalley]

Did I just read all that? If you can put together a good argument for something, I'm listening. That was like walking into a hospital and telling the staff that the hospital needs to go.

[H46Bubba]

He had his thread locked and hasn't been back. He wasn't getting what he was looking for and really wasn't giving any good reason to do so. He can't distinquish GA from 121/135 and bizjets. Most of those bizjets he's refering to are owned by companies he contributes to on a daily basis.

[hacknow]

I didn't lock the other thread, the moderator did. Seems I've been censored. Guess I rustled a few too many feathers. Anyway, I guess this is getting old for all of us.

Let me ask a stupid question: Are bizjets considered GA? If not, then I probably am barking up the wrong tree, or at least barking too loudly. Is there a "bizjet" forum? Where is the line drawn? By weight?

And Bubba- you're exactly right. I probably do inadvertently support the businesses that use TEB. That' my point. I wrote: the Port Authority should be forced to provide local residents with a list of companies using the airport so that they can stop buying their goods and services.

Shouldn't residents decide?

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by hacknow

I didn't lock the other thread, the moderator did. Seems I've been censored. Guess I rustled a few too many feathers. Anyway, I guess this is getting old for all of us.

Let me ask a stupid question: Are bizjets considered GA? If not, then I probably am barking up the wrong tree, or at least barking too loudly. Is there a "bizjet" forum? Where is the line drawn? By weight?

And Bubba- you're exactly right. I probably do inadvertently support the businesses that use TEB. That' my point. I wrote: the Port Authority should be forced to provide local residents with a list of companies using the airport so that they can stop buying their goods and services.

Shouldn't residents decide?

Your thread was locked due to all the pilots telling you what they think of you coming on here. I have to agree that some have tried to give you honest responses, but you only would reply to those who were "attacking" your post.

Okay, Here a little class on how avaition is divided up. GA is divided up into seperate entities. You have regular GA which is Joe Blow with his Cessna 172 who flies for fun on the weekends. Now there is the money amking side to GA. You have your flight schools who teach people to fly and get their advanced certificates so they can fly for the airlines or whatever else. At these schools are the flight instructors who are building flight time to get hired by said airlines and so on. The next rung up the ladder is your air charters utilizing small aircraft. The final GA piece is the bizjets as you call it. Most corporate jets are utilzed for actual "business" trips. Most big corporation own corporate jets. It allows them to not have to rely on airline schedules and be able to make their meeting, which usually consist of more than one a day in different cities across the U.S. With the way the NYC metro airports have been lately with massive delay and cancellations, it a money saver as well.
I undestand that your family has owned that house since 1964, but why didn't you take any action until someone had to point it out to you? If they hadn't said anything you would be on you're crusade. It's not like there has been an explosion of incresed traffic, but more of a gradual steady increase.
There are thing that you can do other than shutting the airport down. There is a program the FAA can implement called Noise Abaitment Procedures. That basically gets a noise decible study done and the FAA and the PA can come up with procuderes for reduicing the noise footprints of the airport as well as setting a curfew for the airport and limiting certain types of aircraft that have certain engines. They will also set up certain procudures for aircraft to follow whe departing the airport to reduce noise.
You can't go all half cocked and start attacking an airport. You need to do more research than just going off that stupid website. No one on that site had an f'n clue what they were talking about. Call the local FAA office and ask someone questions about how to reduce noise. Call the PA and ask them the same thing. There doesn't need to be an angry mob gallavanting around TEB with no clue as to how the airport operates, what GA is or how it works.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by hacknow

I didn't lock the other thread, the moderator did. Seems I've been censored. Guess I rustled a few too many feathers. Anyway, I guess this is getting old for all of us.

Naw, if you were to get censored your posts would just disappear. We don't work like that around here. Threads get closed when they start to stink too much and people get to venomous in their replies. This is Doug's virtual living room and we ask the guests to treat it that way. It's an informal place, but one where small semblance of manners is required. It never hurts to review The Rules when in doubt about acceptable and unacceptable behavior.