Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian J  What you are failing to notice is that from everything dc3flyer wrote, it was NOT a "willful act to break that rule." They did not cross 10k and decide "what the hell, let's just keep the speed up cause we're late!"
From his perspective:
- He knew the 250 under under 10k rule
- He relied on the captain's judgment
- It seems he didn't query the captain about it at the time (lesson learned I assume)
- The captain admitted to messing up
I don't see willful negligence, I see an f-up they admitted to, learned from, and are going to fix.
The horses are pretty high around here these days.
And you know what? The lesson here isn't "read your regs, you unprofessional slacker!" This is actually a great lesson in CRM. Any new, young SIC in a complex aircraft has a significant challenge when it comes to relying on the experience of a far more experienced PIC. I'm not sure what CRM classes are like in the civilian world, but if they are anything like the military you probably learn about different scenarios in which an SIC's over-reliance in the PIC's experience caused an accident. Even armed with this knowledge, it is still VERY difficult for a new, un-experienced SIC to question a more experienced pilot. Maybe every young stud on JC has no problem with it, but I highly, highly doubt it.
Dc3flyer learned from this, and he'll probably be a bit more vocal in the future. |
Yours and my definition of willfull are different, I can agree to disagree. Again, I take issue with the lack of conservative thinking more than breaking the rule, we all mess up and break rules every day, it happens. They knew the rule and chose to ignore it, to me that is willful, they even had question in their minds as to the ability of ATC to grant them permission to go faster than 250 below 10, again instead of siding on the side of caution and conservatism (word?) they just went off blindly letting ATC drive the airplane.
Ian, are you really ok with that kind of thinking from the people you share the airspace with?? I believe you fly for Airnet, if I am wrong my apologies, if so, this is your job, not some weeked hobby that can be done half assed. We all need to be doing our jobs CORRECTLY, and when someone displays the attitude and method of thinking that is going to get others and themselves hurt, you are damn right they need to be called to the carpet and made to dance.
This would be a totally different conversation had the situation been that those two were distracted by something and noticed their speed and then made the attempt to fix it. THEN come here, tell the story and then ask for clarification on speed(s) below 10. That isn't the case, the rule was known, the rule was broken for no good reason AT ALL and neither pilot showed any kind of reasonable judgement, especially considering the implied total time of the captain.