jetcareers - View Single Post - Ride coming up!! Comm prividleges & limits

pilot602 · November 19th, 2003, 09:53

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I think the point my instructor was getting at is if a guy comes to you and offers $200 for you to take him XXX, and you say $300 and he accepts, then he tells another guy that you will fly to XXX for $300 and so on.

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He'd do the same exact thing if you took the initial $200 - that he offered. So what's the difference? You, as a pilot, cannot control what other people do or say. You can only control your own behavior. As a pilot you have every right to determine your own worth. And no where does the AC say one word about negotiating price as a condition/definition of either common or private carraige or holding out.

The interesting question, now, is can a commercial pilot offer/advertise his services as such - a commercial pilot. I ran the "negotiating" question by my instructor and she hadn't heard anythign about it but did bring up the topic that as a commercial pilot you are not allowed to put up a flyer saying, essentially, "Hey I'm Joe Schmo, a commercial pilot, I'm looking for a job/I'll fly your plane." That in doing so you would be "holding out."

I argued that if that were true how in the hell are you supposed to find a job. I also argued that the AC dealt with the operation of the aircraft/business and the operator of the aircraft - not the pilot of someone elses aircaft. But after reading the circular again I'm not so sure.

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4 GUIDELINES.
To the public, A carrier becomes a common carrier when it "holds itself out" or to a segment of the public, as willing to furnish transportation within the limits of its facilities to any person who wants it.

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This paragraph seems to support my view - that the FAA looks at the operational control by the owner of the aircraft.

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There are four elements in defining a common carrier; (1) a holding out of a willingness to (2) transport persons or property (3) from place to place (4) for compensation. This "holding out" which makes a person a common carrier can be done in many ways and it does not matter how it is done.

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This paragraph brings the definition to a single person. It still does not define the person as the pilot of the aircraft but it doesn't rpeclude the pilot either.

Guess it's time to make a trip to Doc's and do some research.

If it is true that a commercial pilot can not advertise his or her services as only that - a commercial pilot available to render service as a pilot in someone else's aircraft - then there is no point whatsoever to earn a commercial pilot certificate at anything under 1,200hrs. If the FAA's view is to limit commercial certificates to flight instruction only they should change the commercial certificate requirements to 1,200 hours and grant flight instructor ratings the privilige of flying for hire.

November 19th, 2003, 09:53	#17
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,752	Re: Ride coming up!! Comm prividleges & limits [ QUOTE ] I think the point my instructor was getting at is if a guy comes to you and offers $200 for you to take him XXX, and you say $300 and he accepts, then he tells another guy that you will fly to XXX for $300 and so on. [/ QUOTE ] He'd do the same exact thing if you took the initial $200 - that he offered. So what's the difference? You, as a pilot, cannot control what other people do or say. You can only control your own behavior. As a pilot you have every right to determine your own worth. And no where does the AC say one word about negotiating price as a condition/definition of either common or private carraige or holding out. The interesting question, now, is can a commercial pilot offer/advertise his services as such - a commercial pilot. I ran the "negotiating" question by my instructor and she hadn't heard anythign about it but did bring up the topic that as a commercial pilot you are not allowed to put up a flyer saying, essentially, "Hey I'm Joe Schmo, a commercial pilot, I'm looking for a job/I'll fly your plane." That in doing so you would be "holding out." I argued that if that were true how in the hell are you supposed to find a job. I also argued that the AC dealt with the operation of the aircraft/business and the operator of the aircraft - not the pilot of someone elses aircaft. But after reading the circular again I'm not so sure. [ QUOTE ] 4 GUIDELINES. To the public, A carrier becomes a common carrier when it "holds itself out" or to a segment of the public, as willing to furnish transportation within the limits of its facilities to any person who wants it. [/ QUOTE ] This paragraph seems to support my view - that the FAA looks at the operational control by the owner of the aircraft. [ QUOTE ] There are four elements in defining a common carrier; (1) a holding out of a willingness to (2) transport persons or property (3) from place to place (4) for compensation. This "holding out" which makes a person a common carrier can be done in many ways and it does not matter how it is done. [/ QUOTE ] This paragraph brings the definition to a single person. It still does not define the person as the pilot of the aircraft but it doesn't rpeclude the pilot either. Guess it's time to make a trip to Doc's and do some research. If it is true that a commercial pilot can not advertise his or her services as only that - a commercial pilot available to render service as a pilot in someone else's aircraft - then there is no point whatsoever to earn a commercial pilot certificate at anything under 1,200hrs. If the FAA's view is to limit commercial certificates to flight instruction only they should change the commercial certificate requirements to 1,200 hours and grant flight instructor ratings the privilige of flying for hire.