jetcareers - View Single Post

killbilly · October 14th, 2006, 14:01

First off, I gotta say that without this website to help answer some questions, I would have already made some potentially very costly mistakes...I figure I already owe Doug money for saving me from ignornace, in a manner of speaking. That said, I'm looking at some creative alternatives. And Doug, send me an invoice.

It appears that I will be able to start training for PPL within the next 9-10 months (possibly earlier) and I've searched far and wide for the best quality of training for the price. Haven't arrived at any decisions yet, but have some ideas. WhiteAir looks awfully good right now. So does Anson.

Just for grins, I picked up an AeroTrader last night and was browsing through it, deciphering the acronyms, and started wondering...

Does it make sense for a new pilot to invest in a simple aircraft, say, a C-150 or C-152 and hire an instructor to teach him/her to fly it? I was surprised that you can get a very used but serviceable plane, IFR-certified, for under $30K and a pretty wide window before MOH. I've followed the prices off and on, and frankly, they seem to have bottomed out...the same aircraft cost roughly the same amount 7-10 years ago if I'm remembering correctly, so depreciation doesn't seem to be a factor. Or maybe it is. Not sure.

My thinking is that, financially, it might, possibly, be wise to buy the aircraft, lease it back to a flying club or FBO, and pay for an instructor to train in it. Depending on the operating costs (which are hard to find on the web, by the way - maybe my Google-Fu is weak) it seems like the lease-back rate would cover at least a larger part of the loan payment on the plane, assuming the aircraft was financed at all.

Once the student has earned a PPL and IFR certificate, the student could either a) keep the plane and build time in it, b) sell the plane and lose very little of the initial investment, and the freed up cashflow could go toward more advanced ratings (Commercial, CFI tickets, etc.) If the costs/offset are a zero-sum game, this seems workable to me.

I'm not sure this is a smart thing to do - I don't know what I don't know, really, as far as the costs of the aircraft. From what little I've been able to figure out, straight costs on the plane itself (for a 152) would come out to around $60 per hour or so - but the fees for hangar, insurance (a BIG x-factor) and other stuff may blow that right out of the water. I'd have the financial wherewithal for the payment itself...wondering if I could make the plane pay for itself, I guess. Make sense?

I'm guessing at least some of you have investigated this or at least done it...just trying to look at all angles. The basic purchase cost that I've seen would result in a loan payment (72 mos, 8% - according to AOPA) of around $540 a month and change on a 28K loan - I don't know what leaseback rates are, though, and I have zero idea how much insurance would be, as well as hangar/tiedown fees are at some place like KTKI.

Am I on to something here? Is this a smart thing, dumb thing, or just another...thing...one can do in the pursuit of flight training? Interested in experiences, ideas, opinions.

October 14th, 2006, 14:01	#1
killbilly Old Skool Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 3,309	ownership, costs, and training First off, I gotta say that without this website to help answer some questions, I would have already made some potentially very costly mistakes...I figure I already owe Doug money for saving me from ignornace, in a manner of speaking. That said, I'm looking at some creative alternatives. And Doug, send me an invoice. It appears that I will be able to start training for PPL within the next 9-10 months (possibly earlier) and I've searched far and wide for the best quality of training for the price. Haven't arrived at any decisions yet, but have some ideas. WhiteAir looks awfully good right now. So does Anson. Just for grins, I picked up an AeroTrader last night and was browsing through it, deciphering the acronyms, and started wondering... Does it make sense for a new pilot to invest in a simple aircraft, say, a C-150 or C-152 and hire an instructor to teach him/her to fly it? I was surprised that you can get a very used but serviceable plane, IFR-certified, for under $30K and a pretty wide window before MOH. I've followed the prices off and on, and frankly, they seem to have bottomed out...the same aircraft cost roughly the same amount 7-10 years ago if I'm remembering correctly, so depreciation doesn't seem to be a factor. Or maybe it is. Not sure. My thinking is that, financially, it might, possibly, be wise to buy the aircraft, lease it back to a flying club or FBO, and pay for an instructor to train in it. Depending on the operating costs (which are hard to find on the web, by the way - maybe my Google-Fu is weak) it seems like the lease-back rate would cover at least a larger part of the loan payment on the plane, assuming the aircraft was financed at all. Once the student has earned a PPL and IFR certificate, the student could either a) keep the plane and build time in it, b) sell the plane and lose very little of the initial investment, and the freed up cashflow could go toward more advanced ratings (Commercial, CFI tickets, etc.) If the costs/offset are a zero-sum game, this seems workable to me. I'm not sure this is a smart thing to do - I don't know what I don't know, really, as far as the costs of the aircraft. From what little I've been able to figure out, straight costs on the plane itself (for a 152) would come out to around $60 per hour or so - but the fees for hangar, insurance (a BIG x-factor) and other stuff may blow that right out of the water. I'd have the financial wherewithal for the payment itself...wondering if I could make the plane pay for itself, I guess. Make sense? I'm guessing at least some of you have investigated this or at least done it...just trying to look at all angles. The basic purchase cost that I've seen would result in a loan payment (72 mos, 8% - according to AOPA) of around $540 a month and change on a 28K loan - I don't know what leaseback rates are, though, and I have zero idea how much insurance would be, as well as hangar/tiedown fees are at some place like KTKI. Am I on to something here? Is this a smart thing, dumb thing, or just another...thing...one can do in the pursuit of flight training? Interested in experiences, ideas, opinions.