[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by higney85

Pinnacle is a far cry from Gojets, there are no contracts to the company- Just the current ALPA contract that is being re-negotiated(STILL). The other cert has been here since pinnacle started- the predecessor was express 1, which is still held by pinnacle but has not been used in some time.

Not quite correct. Express I IS Pinnacle. They changed the name. The second cert has only been active for a short amount of time. They didn't get a new cert and call it Pinnacle, we're still flying on the same cert Express I was on with the Saabs, etc.

I find it highly improbrable that Pinnacle would be able to operate express one without using the current senority list and ALPA contract, while the pay rates could be less (could use turboprops instead of jets) I doubt they can get around ALPA.

Mesa and TSA would disagree with you there. But, thanks the the battles they've already fought, we've got ammunition to fight managment with. What they are proposing is to do exactly that: fly the second cert with non-union pilots......with 70 seat jets.

I know, personally, if there is non-unionized fying- I'm Gone! I doubt many would stick around and take the "scab" on the record.

You're only a "scab" if you cross a picket line. If you go over to GoJets (or Freedom before they were accepted back into the Mesa fold), then you're just union busting. I won't fly for the other cert if they're not the same seniority list, but then again I'd probably furloughed before long anyway....

In reality and the short term I think the pilots union will get a contract with only small pay increases (currently first year is about $21 an hour, second is only $24 I believe) and NW will renew a contract with PNCL. Beyond that I could see express 1 start up with the old saabs (currently parked) or possibly some 50 seaters (as some may recall NW parked 15 of the Crj's a while back that may be able to be negotiated for) and serve some market (have no idea here),

Saabs probably won't be coming back. It would take too much $$$ to get them current and get pilots current to fly them for the return, especially if Mesaba pulls through. The 15 CRJs in the desert are owned by NWA, not PCL. NWA wants 70 seaters since they can already oversell a 50 seater, and they want to phase out some of the DC-9 routes that DON'T fill up. So I wouldn't hold my breath on 50 seaters. I'm hoping for a lot more than just a "small pay increase," and by that I want some of the QOL issues they've got on the table fixed. I think it sucks they can just say "Oh, you thought you were going home? Well, you're essentially airport reserve for the next 5 hours." That's in the current management proposal, and it sucks. It's for "irregular operations," but they LOOSELY define irregular ops. I also want protection from an alter-ego airline and at LEAST enough of a pay increase that I'm not taking a cut with the new insurance they want to put into effect. There's a lot more going on than they probably are telling you guys in ground school.

but by no means do I see a non-Alpa work environment anywhere under the pinnacle management banner- there are just too many pilots that would act before the company could get scabs to keep things afloat.

Sad truth is that if it DID happen, there would be no shortage of resumes coming in to fly for the non-union carrier. I don't think GoJets has a problem filling classes, and with JetU pumping it's propaganda out, it's even more likely.

What I could see coming is a training contract of some sort. Attrition varies month to month but all signs show to about one class of 20-25 a month just maintains the attrition. While that may just be a sign of the times most pilots leaving are only in the 1st or 2nd year with the company- I believe the quote was "For each pilot that leaves before 2 years of service costs the company $30K.."

That I could see happening, but if they increased FO wage, they'd get a lot fewer guys leaving. If the put in the training contract, you're still gonna have guys breaking the contract and jumping somewhere else. Then you've got a legal battle to get your money, which may wind up costing even more.

I just recall how much I "thought" I knew, and how much I "learned" when going from 500hours to the 1000hours I have now- and I don't even begin to say that I am "experienced". Some of these guys in class have never even seen a flight level, nor anything that does 200kts on a ground speed. At least I wont be flying with them!

Maybe, but if the trend keeps up, we might be flying with someone LIKE them in a few years.