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jrh · November 13th, 2005, 16:55

What? You're a CFI now and you don't magically have all the answers?

Try looking at 14 CFR 61.113, "Private pilot privileges and limitations". That's where the "incidental to your business" rule comes from. So if for some reason flying the cargo is incidental to your business--say, you want to personally deliver a critical package--then it would be legal.

You could also look at 14 CFR 119 if you're referring to commercial pilots, not private pilots. 119.1(b) basically says that unless you're doing one of the operations listed in 119.1(e), such as flight instruction, sightseeing, pipeline patrol, etc., then you're governed by Part 125, 135, or 121.

If you look at 119.5(b), it says that if you're authorized to fly as a commercial operator, you'll be issued an operating certificate. And from 14 CFR 1.1, you can find that a "commercial operator" is somebody who runs an enterprise for profit, not something that is incidental to another business. Then look at 14 CFR 135.1(a)(1). That is saying that Part 135 governs people with an operating certificate from Part 119.

Ok, now look at 14 CFR 119.5(k). That's the reg that says you can't advertise or offer to perform an operation subject to "this part," meaning 119, 121, 125, or 135, unless you are authorized to do so. Being authorized to do so involves getting an operating certificate and meeting all the other requirements of Part 119. I think this is where the "holding out" concept comes from.

So since flying the cargo is not listed in 119.1(e), it probably falls under Part 135. In order to fly under Part 135, according to 119.1(b) and 135.1(a)(1), you need an operating certificate, because you're a commercial operator, according to Part 1.1. But you don't have one. Additionally, since you don't have one, you can't advertise or offer to perform the operation, according to 119.5(k). Therefore, the whole situation would be illegal.

I hope I got everything interpretted correctly. Does that make sense?

November 13th, 2005, 16:55	#3
jrh Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,784	What? You're a CFI now and you don't magically have all the answers? Try looking at 14 CFR 61.113, "Private pilot privileges and limitations". That's where the "incidental to your business" rule comes from. So if for some reason flying the cargo is incidental to your business--say, you want to personally deliver a critical package--then it would be legal. You could also look at 14 CFR 119 if you're referring to commercial pilots, not private pilots. 119.1(b) basically says that unless you're doing one of the operations listed in 119.1(e), such as flight instruction, sightseeing, pipeline patrol, etc., then you're governed by Part 125, 135, or 121. If you look at 119.5(b), it says that if you're authorized to fly as a commercial operator, you'll be issued an operating certificate. And from 14 CFR 1.1, you can find that a "commercial operator" is somebody who runs an enterprise for profit, not something that is incidental to another business. Then look at 14 CFR 135.1(a)(1). That is saying that Part 135 governs people with an operating certificate from Part 119. Ok, now look at 14 CFR 119.5(k). That's the reg that says you can't advertise or offer to perform an operation subject to "this part," meaning 119, 121, 125, or 135, unless you are authorized to do so. Being authorized to do so involves getting an operating certificate and meeting all the other requirements of Part 119. I think this is where the "holding out" concept comes from. So since flying the cargo is not listed in 119.1(e), it probably falls under Part 135. In order to fly under Part 135, according to 119.1(b) and 135.1(a)(1), you need an operating certificate, because you're a commercial operator, according to Part 1.1. But you don't have one. Additionally, since you don't have one, you can't advertise or offer to perform the operation, according to 119.5(k). Therefore, the whole situation would be illegal. I hope I got everything interpretted correctly. Does that make sense?