[naunga]

JT,

It really bothers you that some people choose not to have children, doesn't it?

It's like the 18 year old woman who is refused a tubal ligation because she's "too young", but can have as many children as she wants. Why is she deemed too young to not have children, but old enough to have them? What does it matter to you if I have children or not? What if I did have a child and they grew up to be the person who killed your daughter?

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Naunga's complaints about children:

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These's aren't my complaints. These are the reasons I'm not having children. Whether the stages pass quickly or not isn't the issue. I'm not having children. But at the same time I'm not, as I've said before, telling you that you shouldn't have children.

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Increased medical bills - what are you saving the money for?

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I'm not saving my money for anything. If you ask me saving money is the sillist thing I've ever heard of unless you're saving for a specific goal (college, car, big trip around the world, flight school, airplane, etc). Just like retirement. At this point in time I enjoy my work. Why would I quit? This is what I want to be doing. My wife and I haven't saved a dime. I doubt we ever will. We live paycheck to paycheck and still manage to get a lot out of life. Amazing isn't it?

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The pain of labor. - Answer: C-section!

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Uh yeah, I hardly think that you or I are qualified anatomically to provide the answer to labor pain. I simply pointed out that the rumor is that it hurts like hell. You ever wonder why most OB/GYN's reserve a C-section as a last resort? Between the harm that the general anesthesia may do to the baby, along with the increased time that the delivery takes, and the danger of interal bleeding, and accidental damage to the baby (i.e. scapels are sharp and cut tissue really easily) they're not exactly the safest proceedure in the world. Plus, from what I've heard, the recovery is more painful for the woman...but that's just what I've heard.

On a side note, if my wife were to get pregnant, she not we would be pregnant. We would be expecting, but it's not my stomach that swells, it's not me who gets morning sickness, it's not me who carries the child in me for 9 months. I don't even help with carrying it. She does. I love and support her, but I am by no means pregnant as well.

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Having to forgo things that you like to do for you kids. - Selfish aren't we?

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I didn't appreciate this comment. Perhaps I am selfish, but what's more selfish recognizing the fact that you'd rather live your life without children or having children that you really don't want and resenting them every step of the way?

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- Birthday parties - These actually suck. Too many kids in one place!

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If you like kids and claim that kids are entertaining, how could you ever be around "too many" kids? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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NO. My daughter is not dating until she is THIRTY!

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And if you ask me this is a very selfish statement (even though it was probably said in jest). Children are only children for 18 years. Then they're adults. Why would you wish to limit your daughter's life? This is one of the views that would probably make be a bad father. Once my kid was 13 or 14 they can make their own decisions. Good or bad. If they want to do it I'll let them. I'll give them my advice and tell them what I think, but it's their choice in the end. They also have to live with the consequences of their decision. I'll help them anyway I can, but that's after I say to them "you made your bed, now sleep in it". I firmly believe that God's greatest gift to us is free will. It's also the greatest burden and probably the thing that saddens him the most. We have to choose salvation. God does not force it upon us. So to force someone to live a specific way takes that gift away, and put's the human doing the forcing into a role reserved only for God.

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Family vacations. - Tell you as soon as we can take one!

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You know I don't buy this one. My mother didn't work until after my brother was born (which would have put me in the 4th grade) and my dad was a high school band director in a small town in Michigan. We always took a family vacation. Never anything extravagant, but we always went someplace for about a week or so. So if we went on vacations on a teacher's salary in the late '70's and '80's (and while teachers get 3 months off in the summer that 3 months unpaid vacation) I don't buy that you can't go on a family vacation.

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You forgot some of the best things.

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I could say the same to you about not having kids. For example:
- Apparently you're never going to go on vacation. My wife and I take a big vacation every year and several smaller ones for things like birthday's, anniversaries, Columbus day (gotta love those Federal holidays)
- Being 100% devoted to my wife and no one else. You can't be devoted to your wife and children at the same time. It's like if your home is burning down and your wife and daughter are trapped inside and only one can be saved who do you save?
- Watching my wife achieve things that no one in her family thought she'd achieve.
- Not having to trip on toys in the middle of the floor.
- Being able to walk around the house bare-ass naked without having to worry about if the kids see you or not.

The list goes on. Of course you probably wouldn't see those as positives, just as I don't see "Mommy! Daddy's home!" and she runs to me with her latest work of art as a positive. That fact doesn't reduce the importance of that to you, but it also doesn't mean that everyone would find this as a positive.

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What is the big worry about money?

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No big worry really. I'd just rather spend my money and live my life without having the responsibility of children. Does that make me selfish? Maybe. Does that make me less of an adult? No way. I have the same adult issues that most people do. I pay bills, I go to work, I support my wife, and on and on. The only difference is that I know I don't want children of my own. You can have as many as you want. Doesn't bother me.

As I said I'm not one of these nuts who hates children. I just know that A) I'd make a lousy father. Hell if it weren't for my wife our cat would never get fed, B) I've had enough problems in my life to realize that no one else should be subjected to my genetic material . I just wonder why it seems to bother you so much that I've decided not to have children? I respect the choices that people make to have children or not. I'm happy for the people who do have children. In fact I have a friend who's wife is pregnant with they're second child. I'm thrilled for them, because I know they want a bunch. I'm happy for R2F he sounds like he'll make a great father. That kid is going to have a great life. But I'm also happy for people who choose not to have children. I celebrate people's vasectomies and tubal ligations. These people don't want children, would be lousy parents, and are good people with or without kids.

I look at it like this R2F and I (and other parents out there) have for the most part agreed to disagree about children. The Golden Rule says, "do on to others, as you'd have done to you." I don't wish to be derided or presecuted because I do not want children, and parents don't want to be derided or persecuted because they have children. So I respect their decision, and recognize that just like my decision, their's is right for them.

If any of my posts seem to be derisive toward anybody, I apologize. It was not my intent. Advice was asked for and given from various points of view. Including mine. That's all.

One more thing...

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It aint goin' with you!

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Of course it isn't. I plan to die broke. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Naunga